♪ >> Valerie: Welcome to Canada Files.

I'm Valerie Pringle.

My guest today is actor and comic, Martin Short.

His career has lasted more than 50 years in television, films and on Broadway.

He has created memorable characters like Ed Grimley and Jiminy Glick and is having a sweet renaissance.

Starring in Only Murders in the Building .

I spoke with him in New York.

>> Valerie: Marty, hello.

>> Marty: Hello.

>> You've had such a remarkable long successful career.

What's kept you interested?

What's kept you going?

>> Oh, I don't know.

I guess because I love doing it.

It's challenging.

Each new job is a new mountain to climb.

What makes doctors keep wanting to be doctors?

>> So you've sort of found success in variety.

There's tv, Broadway, movies.

You've been able to do a lot of stuff.

>> Well I mean, I think it's very Canadian of me.

When I started off in 1972 as an actor in Toronto.

And there was no definition of what you were.

You just, whether it was stage, tv or radio, you just said do I bring a suit or not?

I think in a way, for 7 years my career was only in Toronto.

That was like, paved the way of how I wanted to do it.

I wanted to do all mediums at the same time and just keep it interesting.

>> But there have been ups and downs obviously.

There are always are.

Isn't a famous spot in Los Angeles called >> ...Breakdown Corner?

>> Oh yes, that was Flores and Santa Monica.

That was in 1977.

...I'd just finished a stage musical here.

Now I didn't have a job and I was now in California.

With my wife-to-be and we were going to meet Paul Shaffer and Bill Murray.

And I thought, I can't... Bill had just started at SNL .

I can't pretend to be happy for anyone now.

Because I'm just...it wasn't even that I wasn't working.

I didn't know what I wanted to do.

Did I want to do--I wasn't sure.

I was very kind of confused.

Then I went and saw a group called War Babies that night.

I went, ahhh that's what I want.

I want to do Second City .

>> Well you're having this sweet renaissance with Only Murders in the Building .

>> Uhmmmm.

>> Now what a gift this has been.

>> Fantastic.

Well, Steve Martin created it so that helps.

I have connections.

>> Working with Steve though.

And Selena, Meryl.

Really, let alone all the other people who parade through.

>> Absolutely...Eugene Levy.

>> Unbelievable!

So how do you sort of look at this?

Like, is this the most fun you've had?

>> No.

It's all been fun.

Being in a big success is fun but the success part come later.

What's fun is creating it and doing it.

Sometimes a film that doesn't do the business you thought it would do, was the most fun you've ever had.

So you don't worry about the ramifications of art.

You worry about, is it an exciting and enjoyable experience when you do it.

Because the definition of something's success is determined often ten years later.

It's a Wonderful Life was not terribly successful when it opened-- now it's a classic, you know.

>> Well the New York Times did say about you >> ...that you steal every scene.

>> Well, there you go.

>> You must remember, somebody's written-- there's one other great line that said-- >> I don't read reviews.

>> You don't?

>> No.

>> You don't read reviews?

This one says, "Not through grandstanding but the steady skill of an old pro".

>> There you go.

I'll take that.

>> Yeah, it's very great.

>> Now you were that kid in the bedroom, right?

>> Right.

>> In Hamilton, Ontario doing variety shows.

Making--singing, making records.

What's the ... >> Well, I had a contract with NBC back then.

I was on every other Tuesday at 8pm.

Not every Tuesday because I was also doing films.

In my imagination.

I was 14-15.

But I took it seriously.

I had an applause record.

I even had a gooseneck lamp that gave me lighting.

Because I knew I needed lighting even then.

And an applause record and I'd record it all.

I'd type things up for TV Guide .

It was a great fantasy that I never took-- I think if I'd lived in the US, I would have said, oh, I want to go be an actor.

But in Canada in the 60s, it seemed too unrealistic.

I mainly watched American tv through Buffalo.

To me, it seemed like I was watching something-- Disneyland seemed like it was on Neptune.

>> Isn't there one wonderful story about a record >> that you made called, Martin Short Sings of Songs... >> And Loves Ago.

>> And you still have it?

>> Yeah, I do.

>> But your mom who was a legit--a real musician.

>> My mother was the first concert master, mistress they used to call it in those days, of a symphony in North America, the Hamilton Philharmonic.

>> But she critiqued it for you.

>> Yes, and that was the great part, that no-one was laughing.

No-one was saying he's nuts.

They were...I still have the critique she wrote.

Well sung.

A little pitchy.

Maybe not the best.

Because I was singing in Frank Sinatra's keys.

Because it was an album he'd done called, September of My Year.

So I would do, ♪ Duudududoodu ♪ I'd click and take over.

But I'm now stuck in his key.

>> So this was just how you spent your time as a kid.

>> Yeah, what am I supposed to do, play hockey?

>> You were the youngest of five and a really close-- >> Very close.

>> Lovely family.

>> Mmmuhhh >> And yet a lot of sadness.

>> You lost your brother in a car accident.

>> Yes, when I was 12.

>> And your parents.

You were an orphan by the time you were 20.

>> Right.

>> So that was... >> But it's interesting, you know.

With that kind of loss, and complexity of a childhood, you either become a victim of it or empowered by it.

So certainly by 20, I knew things about life and death.

And the meaning of life.

Way more than other kids my age.

Who had never experienced anything other than happy days.

I think it empowered me.

It made me braver on stage, I think.

I didn't care less about the approval of strangers, you know.

>> Well, you know, you really tragically lost your beloved wife, Nancy Dolman, when she was in her 50s.

>> Mmuuhhh.

>> There's a really sweet story you tell in your book about speaking to your youngest son.

The night before she died.

And kind of telling him things that you'd learned.

>> Right, yeah.

I know.

He was 20 as well.

>> And saying to him this puts things in perspective.

Or it's a horrible lesson but it's a powerful lesson.

>> Well, that's what it is.

The reality is, we-- life is about loss.

And how do you digest it.

And do you come out the other end.

If you come out a victim, then that's a shame.

>> Because you say essentially, you're kind of a happy person.

>> Well I think one's natural orientation is to be respected.

If you're naturally-- if you have a happy gene, you kind of end up on that side of it.

>> Tell me how Eugene Levy changed your life.

>> Oh Eugene.

Well, Eugene is my oldest and dearest friend.

We met in 1970, through McMaster University.

But then, he's four years older so...I was still in university in my 4th year and he was now an actor in Toronto.

He was working a little bit and struggling a little bit.

I had hired--I was the president of Proscenium which we did the yearly musical troupe at McMaster.

I hired Eugene to direct it.

Of course, he made me the star of it.

It was kind of like the Trump administration a little bit.

But anyway, ...as I'm ending my 4th year--I was planning to do a masters in social work, Eugene said, "You know, you really have some talent and you should take advantage of it and try...come to Toronto and try to be an actor."

I thought that seemed adventurous because I'd never left school.

But I thought I will.

Sure!

I decided I would do that for one year.

I gave myself a one-year contract.

And if, at the end of the year, I didn't work, I'd go back to school.

I realized even then-- I was 21.

But I realized that it was important to look at the mirror at 50 and say, maybe you should have tried being an actor.

Then I could say, oh no that's right, you did try being an actor and no-one hired you.

Oh yeah.

But at least try, you know.

And so, then right away I got a job in Godspell .

And so I was now still in university but I had a job.

And that started it all.

>> And it just felt great, singing, acting.

>> Sure!

>> And being part-- you know, the people.

There was Godspell at this time in Toronto.

Which eventually led to Second City and you were there.

Then SCTV .

>> Right.

SNL.

The movies.

>> Yeah.

The time it seems though with SCTV was a sweet spot too.

>> Oh absolutely.

Because you were working with your oldest friends and you're working in your hometown.

And there was no real pressure.

There wasn't the pressure of Saturday Night Live .

You know where on Monday, you have nothing.

And on Saturday, the last 1.5 hour of the work week is the only 1.5 hour that counts.

In SCTV, you would write for five weeks, and shoot for five weeks and you'd edit pieces.

Sometimes we'd do a movie parody that we thought was brilliant.

Then you saw it and it didn't quite work.

But it did work as a movie promo.

So you...could save yourself in editing.

But there was no pressure to--come on, right now.

Even though you have a cold, you gotta do it.

There wasn't that pressure.

>> You have, what John Candy you worked with.

>> Catharine O'Hara, Andrea Martin.

>> Valerie: Eugene again.

Man!

>> Dave Thomas, Rick Moranis.

Joe Flaherty.

>> ..you mentionned Saturday Night Live.

You were sort of reticent about that.

You did that one season.

You say you almost quit.

It was...hard.

>> Yeah well, I was used to doing SCTV which was ideal.

And suddenly, I was doing Saturday Night Live .

>> Which was like final exams every week.

>> So one year was good.

>> I had a one-year contract and that was plenty.

>> Then after that came Three Amigos .

I love the story of you meeting Steve Martin for the first time.

>> Oh yeah.

I went to his house to pick up a script.

Um and I was stunned by, you know--this was 1985.

So he was already a massive star then.

Had made many movies and already done his stand-up career.

He was rich!

I went to his house.

I saw a Picasso and a Hopper.

I said to him, "How did you get this rich?"

"Because I've seen your work", I said.

You know.

>> You didn't know how he would really react to that.

>> He laughed at that.

Well, I knew enough about him.

That I knew he'd find that funny.

>> But now your relationship is adorable, that friendship.

>> Well, we became great friends.

I think it's interesting about making movies.

Because you're intensely in peoples' worlds.

For a couple of months-- three months maybe.

Maybe you're in Yugoslavia and you're making a movie.

Everyone knows each other and knows who's having an affair.

And everything!

Then the movie ends.

And you never see them again.

But Steve and I...we thought no, let's not have this end.

So we just continued.

We made five movies and tv shows.

And endless concerts.

>> And even do your colonoscopy prep together.

>> That's true--Tom Hanks, Walter Parks, Steve and I have colonoscopy parties.

Well it makes sense, you know.

Why make it a drudge?

>> But you know, you have to really know someone and feel comfortable with someone.

>> Steve's been a very... >> ...to leave the table every five minutes.

>> Steve's been a very close friend for 40 years, yeah.

>> (laughing) Exactly.

OK. Tell me how you created Ed Grimley.

>> Well Ed Grimley was a character.

When I joined Second City stage in March 1977, I was joining a show that already existed.

Called The Wizard of Ossington .

I was replacing John Candy.

And there was a character in a scene called Sexist .

The premise was Peter Akroyd, brother of Danny, and Catharine O'Hara and John Candy-- but they were both applying for the same job.

She was very qualified and he was not a bright guy, running a gas station.

So now I...there was a guy I knew in high school who was like, "I wanna be a photographer."

And he'd take a lot of pictures but he wouldn't develop them because he took them.

And his voice always went up.

So I thought, oh I like that voice.

Then I used to grease my hair a little bit.

Peter Akroyd, who was the interviewer, said, "Boy, your hair is standing taller every show."

So I, to make him laugh, put it right up on a point.

Then the audience laughed.

I thought, well isn't that why I'm here?

So it just kind of kept involving.

>> And with this manic energy.

>> Yeah.

>> You talked about just having to commit to it.

>> It would evolve.

Initially in that scene, he was very low energy.

But then, I remember I did a piece on SCTV , The Fellow Who Couldn't Wait for Christmas.

And that was high energy because he was excited.

It was Christmas Eve.

So that begat kind of Ed's energy.

>> Uhmmm.

You must say.

>> It's perfect.

And Jiminy Glick, I mean really.

>> Well, Jiminy Glick-- I was doing a talk show for King World, 1999-2000.

I wanted to--I remember we were near this CBS centre in LA.

There was a fish market.

There was two hours of make-up and they put a putty nose on me.

I wanted do it cinema verité.

People wouldn't know.

Like Candid Camera and I would hand them fish with my hands.

Everyone said, "Oh, can I have your autograph, Mr Short?"

>> I thought-- that's a drag.

>> Totally.

>> I guess I've been doing this too long.

But I'd made a movie called Pure Luck in 1990.

In that movie, I was stung by a bee and I swell up.

I remember even my wife joined the set and said, "I can't even see you in there."

I thought that's what I want.

So we kinda did that make-up.

>> You had, when you were growing up, you worshipped, you mentionned Frank Sinatra, Jerry Lewis.

>> Mmmmuhh.

>> You end up meeting these people!

>> I did.

>> What was that like--to go.

Hard to meet your heroes.

Who were your heroes, who were big when you were little.

Because that space never gets smaller.

>> I just met Sinata once.

>> But it made a great story.

>> Yeah.

Well I said to him, "Mr Sinatra, you have no idea-- no concept, of how big a fan I am of yours."

>> ( Sinatra imitation ) He said, "I think I do."

( laughing ) >> But Jerry, I interviewed many times.

We did some sketches together.

And he was on my talk show.

So I got to know Jerry.

We had some dinners.

He was delightful.

He was great with me.

>> How disciplined are you?

>> Um, I think I'm pretty disciplined.

I think you have to be disciplined, you know.

Um, even if I'm doing a talk show or something, I send in 15 pages of thoughts.

Maybe jokes or things that you cover.

It's not because I think I'm going to get an agent if it goes well.

But I know that if it doesn't go well, I'm not to blame.

Maybe the host was off, maybe life was off.

Maybe I had a cold.

...I can't look in the mirror afterwards and say, "Maybe if you'd tried harder."

>> Yeah, because you are-- working hard, that's just sort of your ethic.

>> Well, it's kind of what you have to do!

I don't know how else you do it, you know.

>> In your book, you talk about something which was really interesting.

That sort of indicated how seriously you look at life and what's important to you and your values.

>> You talked about your nine categories.

>> Right.

>> Can you tell me about that?

I think it's really interesting.

>> Well, it was...

I was now about 27.

Maybe it was around breakdown corner period or after.

But I--for the first time, I'd experienced a couple of months of not working, four months of not working.

During that phase, you kind of go-- all you think about is oh, I'm not working, they caught me.

I've got to go back to school and all that stuff.

Then by the end of that year, I realized I'd made more money than I'd ever made.

Because after the four months, oh suddenly I had a big job.

And I thought well, I'd like those four months back.

That was a waste of four months of my life.

Then I thought, because I hadn't been out of school very long, maybe it is just you can't put too much emphasis on one idea.

One category, which is career.

That you have to treat your life like you take nine courses at university.

And it's the GPA that you want.

The average is what you want, to bring up.

So for example, category 1 is self.

What's your weight, your health.

All that stuff.

Category 2 is your wife and kids, or husband and kids.

Category 3 is your original family--parents and siblings.

Category 4 is friends.

5 is finances.

6 is career.

7 is creativity.

8 is discipline and 9 is lifestyle.

Are you having any fun?

So if you're not working, your career is in the toilet, then category 6 would get a D or an E. But you could get in the best shape you've ever been in so category 1 is an A.

It brings your GPA up.

You could maybe phone your parents and siblings more.

Maybe be a better friend.

Oh creativity, maybe try to write each day.

Or whatever.

And discipline.

Again, work out more.

Be more...and lifestyle, have fun!

So these, if you do well in those categories, you can bring the bad career GPA up.

>> How did you figure that out though?

>> I don't know.

It's very Oprah of me but I didn't-- I don't remember.

>> But do you keep notes...?

>> Oh, I still do it.

I still give myself a Christmas, Easter and final grade.

>> And you're...

I'm assuming... >> I'm doing great!

>> ( laughing ) Oh, you're doing great.

You talk about you and Paul Shaffer, were always looking at each other going like, "How are we getting away with it?"

>> I know.

Well, we were just so happy to be out of school.

Didn't get over that.

>> That was a long time ago.

>> 50 years.

>> 50+ years ago, that you're still pinching yourself and thinking when are they going to catch onto me.

>> No, I don't think we're pinching ourselves so much.

We're pinching ourselves now to see if the circulation is going.

>> What, is there any work particularly that you're most proud of?

>> No, I'm proud of it all.

I mean there are moments that you are proud that you got through.

Like an opening night of a Broadway musical, or something.

>> Or hosting Saturday Night Live .

>> Sure.

But I think-- so those pressure things, which are more than--shooting a movie isn't a pressure thing.

But those pressure nights, like Broadway openings and SNL , you're proud of.

>> But you know, you're proud of a lot of things.

>> Uhummm... >> You're proud of the effort, that's what you're proud of.

You can't control the results.

Or the personal taste.

Comedy is the most subjective thing in the world.

Some people love The Three Stooges .

Some people hate them.

No-one's wrong and no-one's right.

>> Is there any way that you think you'll know when's the time to stop?

I mean you always had a funny bit.

I think about Lucille Ball.

Like there was I Love Lucy .

>> Then Here's Lucy .

>> Yeah.

>> Then there's The Lucy Show .

>> I think you know when it's time.

Actors tend not to retire, you know.

No-one wants to see Judi Dench retire.

But I think that if you reach a point where you're-- opera singers, by the time they were 58 would often retire.

Because their voices weren't what they wanted them to be.

I think once you realize that you're a diminished version of what you once were, I think that's maybe time.

>> I remember interviewing Oscar Peterson, post-stroke.

He couldn't possibly do what he did.

Then saying, I still haven't written my best work yet so.

>> Well I mean, he doesn't have to perform it, right?

>> So the feeling was you always have to be looking forward.

>> I think artists... it's a personal journey.

There are certain things that you do and if the audience doesn't like it, you don't care.

As much as you'd think people would expect you to care.

Because you like it!

It's like a painter doing a painting and saying I love that painting.

And other people saying, oh I don't!

You say, well fine, you don't have any taste, I do.

>> Yeah, it's not for you.

>> It's subjective, right.

>> The final question we always ask is what does being Canadian mean to you?

>> Oh I think I feel like a member of a very unique club.

You know, there's only 40 million of us.

For years, people would always ask me, why so many people from comedy came from Canada, and in comedy.

And I'd think oh that's a silly question.

There's no border to the arts.

Then they just kept coming.

You know, Mike Myers and Seth Rogen.

And so I think maybe there is something in Canada that-- we're kind of the middle sibling of three siblings.

The beautiful England, the sexy US.

And we're this kind of, maybe our confidence isn't as much as the other two but we have such soul and such wisdom.

And we learn from everything around us.

>> Well, Canada is really proud of you, needless to say.

And it's been a pleasure.

>> Thank you very much.

>> Thank you so much, Marty.

We'll be back next week with another episode of Canada Files .

♪