Canada Files | Moshe Safdie

♪ >> Valerie: Welcome to Canada Files .

I'm Valerie Pringle.

Moshe Safdie is one of the most iconic and inventive architects.

He's created projects ranging from Habitat, the housing complex at Expo 67 in Montreal, Yad Vashem, the holocaust museum in Jerusalem, to the Marina Bay Sands resort in Singapore.

He's written up his sixty years designing buildings around the world in his memoir, If Walls Could Speak: My Life in Architecture .

What a life it has been.

>> Mr. Safdie, hello.

>> Hi, how are you?

>> I'm well.

May we start with Habitat.

It was such a phenomenon.

You were a baby in your 20s.

It was your architectural school thesis.

That you built this amazing residential community.

At Expo 67 in Montreal.

You've described it as a fairytale.

It was a fairytale beginning to your career.

>> What's interesting is at the time it seems inevitable.

It's going to happen, I was driven.

Now I look back and say, how the hell did he get it done.

How did they get it done.

I mean a whole group of young people.

Who formed my office had just been born for the project.

You walk around the project today, 50 years later.

It stands up well-- it's as we could say.

Living happily ever after as a sound community.

When you think back on all the obstacles.

The technical and political obstacles.

It is kind of a fairytale.

>> You made it up on the cover of Newsweek.

You were an instant kind of architectural star.

You invented the stacked washer dryer.

Honestly, this was evolutionary.

>> It's true there was this kind of springing; To the top of the hill.

Right after there were many commissions for other habitats.

Habitat New York, Puerto Rico, Washington, Tehran.

Not all of them got built.

>> Now more habitats coming to... People finally catching up to you.

>> Yes.

So...for a long time Habitat was ignored.

You know it's a one-timer.

It's not something you're going to replicate.

All of a sudden in the last 20 years, interest in housing, sustainability, green building.

All of a sudden the young generation; The next generation, is embracing this.

I'm seeing many habitats of various form, even in Toronto.

>> So you're right?

Very satisfying.

>> Well...it's nice to live long enough to see and enjoy it.

>> The underpinning of Habitat.

Which I love this expression, behind your thinking.

You say was, for everyone a garden.

That came from your childhood in Haifa growing up.

>>I grew up in a very special environment.

Not only historically, the state in the making .

Haifa is a beautiful city, on the hillside.

We were educated to be self-sufficient.

We had a little farm.

I had my bees, chickens.

We had our eggs.

Next door were the Bahá'í Gardens.

Which are one of the most beautiful gardens in the world.

Persian gardens where the Bahá'í religion is centered.

The founder is buried there and the pilgrim says so.

The most beautiful garden in the world was my backyard.

I was obsessed with gardens.

Which then became kind of a model, a metaphor.

That comes through my work beyond Habitat and housing.

Now they've created the Jewel Complex in Singapore airport.

Which is the biggest garden under glass.

As a kind of a urban place.

The scale jumps at the Sky Park at the Marina Bay Sands.

Gardens have kind of been the major theme in my work.

Right through housing, workspace, museums, libraries.

It's the centrepiece of some theme.

>> You know, we saw it during COVID, People craved and needed that.

Where's my outdoor space, public space and garden?

>> There's a major shift because of COVID.

In the emphasis on outdoor space, opening windows.

Even on a balcony which would not be provided maybe earlier.

And people -- I remember a friend calling me from New York.

An urban planner living in a luxury building.

With a doorman and everything.

And bemoaning during COVID.

Can't open my windows.

Don't have an outdoor space.

I'm going nuts.

That's luxury housing-- not low income housing.

So now we've now come full circle.

That's not just about the living space, but about the workspace.

Office buildings one acre footprint.

Where 80% of people don't see a window all day are on the way out.

I don't think we're going to build many more.

In Europe, it's already legislated.

You got to be so many meters away from a window.

You're ought to be able to have outdoor space.

If people are to go out not just for a smoke, but for fresh air.

So I think we're seeing a kind of shift.

A return, I'd say to the significance, beauty and nourishing qualities of nature.

>> You have spent a huge amount of your career building in Israel.

You talked about Yad Vashem, being the most challenging.

And symbolically demanding because of the responsibility you had in creating this.

And because it was personal as well.

>> Yad Vashem, I talk in the memoir about those projects which demand rising to another level.

I talk about music in architecture.

I talk about the fact often wanted as an architect.

Can we, through architecture rise to the emotion level that we get from music.

I used to think that's not possible actually.

That music is sublime and we can't.

When it comes to projects like Yad Vashem.

Or any memorial or something which has a whole history to it, or national identity.

I think that's where an architect can rise.

In Yad Vashem, It was a place that has to tell the most horrific story.

That maybe occurred in human history.

At the same time, you can't leave the visitor down in the dungeon, in the death camps.

So part of the architecture was to take you underground.

Into a series of galleries in which the narrative unfolds.

But slowly, that underground structure starts climbing out towards the light.

At the end, you reach the point where you come out of the mountain you're overlooking the Jerusalem forest.

And for me this was like, we prevailed.

We're here alive and we prevailed.

This was very controversial.

Particularly among the survivors of the death camps.

Some of who were on the building committee.

Who could not share this kind of optimistic statement at the end.

Almost everyone who comes to Yad Vashem at the moment they come out of this point where you are hovering over the forest.

Having gone through that whole story of the Holocaust.

It's almost a moment of rebirth.

So in that sense, you have a moment there.

Which I suppose you can say made it up to music maybe.

>> One of the more extraordinary stories is at the opening of Yad Vashem.

In the line up for the men's bathroom.

You run into Sheldon Adelson, Mr. Las Vegas developer who says, "Nice job, Moshe".

Would you like to design Marina Bay Sands Resort in Singapore?

Which you say was one of the most successful buildings of the 21st century.

One of the most significant projects of your career.

>> But totally the opposite.

>> Completely.

Couldn't be more opposite >> This is the Crazy Rich Asian building >> That was quite an adventure.

First it was very little time left to design it.

We designed it and built it in four years.

I couldn't think of more unlike people.

In history, conviction, political beliefs than the two of us but we managed somehow to cooperate.

Maybe under the shadow of the Singapore government.

Who had very clear objectives as to what it wanted.

The fact of the matter is this building has become the symbol of Singapore It has become in fact the symbol of almost southeast Asia.

It's like the Sidney Opera House on the newscast.

>> You must have loved that movie, Crazy Rich Asians.

That took it to another level.

>> That movie took it to the level of pop culture.

People sometimes ask me, you're an architect?

What have you designed?

I say, did you see the movie?

Many people have seen that movie.

>> They want to know when did you figure out that you were going to put that pool on top.

And create a sky park ?

You say you just put a piece of balsa wood on the model.

And went, that's where it will go.

>> Why not?

They evolved that way, that was not part of the initial plan.

We needed space for the parks and the swimming pools.

It was very dense.

There were three hotels.

They needed to be arranged.

There was a big piece of balsa wood in the model shop where all the good things happen.

At some point, I just lifted it and some of clients-- people were there and said there it is.

I won't say what Mr. Adelson said when he first saw it.

It took some time to convert him.

Everybody recognize that's a winner.

This was a competition.

We had to win it.

Competing with other developers with their own architect.

>> So I'm figuring the best review you ever got was from the boy that came into the National Gallery of Canada.

After you'd built that and said, "Does God live here?"

>> It was in the Great Hall, the week of the opening.

Maybe the day after the formal opening.

My wife, Michal, and I were climbing the ramp-- arrived at the Great Hall.

This kid with his mother were right next to us.

He looked up onto the sails in the hall.

Roof, ceiling, dome of the Great Hall.

He says, "Mama, does God live up there?"

To me, that was again a musical moment.

>> You talk about magic in buildings.

I guess you can't achieve it every time.

>> No, you can't.

>> You got to be shooting for it.

>> There is buildings that work and buildings that don't work.

That's why one of the things I try and develop in the memoir.

To give lay people the tools about evaluating architecture.

Is this a good school if it's a school?

Is that a good opera house?

This criteria-- how's the sound and sight lines?

What's the experience, you know.

Then there's beyond that element.

That touches us emotionally.

That touches us in a way that is lasting.

That is when architecture transcends.

That's what you aim for.

Spirituality is not just something you aim for as an architect.

When you're doing a significant public building, there's something about spirituality when designing a residential complex.

There's something about uplifting the human spirit.

Making people feel good about themselves.

Through the architecture as they experience it then.

That's a subtle thing but it's central.

>> As is the power of place.

Which you spent a lot of time talking about.

>> The power of place in this globalizing world.

Where everything is becoming the same has become really central.

It's a lesson I got from building in Jerusalem.

When I came to Jerusalem, right after Habitat.

1967, 68, 70.

There's a rich history of its architecture.

There's a heritage there.

You can't just come and do contemporary buildings.

Glass and steel in the middle of all that history.

One of my objectives, if I succeed in designing contemporary buildings in Jerusalem-- that you won't be able to answer the question.

As it was put to me by one client, "Will it be a modern or traditional building?"

It just needs to belong.

Therefore, its concept is rooted in place.

That became a motive.

National Gallery did its best.

To relate to neo-gothic Nordic cold Ottawa Later on the Sikh Museum had to feel to the Sikhs.

Like it belongs to them.

That's part of the heritage of Sikh architecture.

Art and culture and belonged there.

That meant I had to become bit of a chameleon.

Rather than the architect with the power of signature.

Design signature.

You bring from place to place.

There's now a building here, there.

Recognizable, sort of imported and repeated.

That it's really important to have a building belong.

As you do that, you need to understand the place more deeply you need to relate to the materials and traditions.

It's not just China is different to the United States.

Is different to Israel or Senegal.

That Boston is different from New York.

Chicago is different from Las Angeles.

Every site has its secrets you need to decipher.

>> Also the other part of architecture, you say that just gives you a little shiver of happiness is to actually see your building starting to go up.

That you say the feelings are -- >> And the greatest, When the people move in for the first time.

Like we just inaugurated a medical school In Sao Paolo, Brazil.

Because of COVID, I was not able to go there during construction.

I only saw it through cameras as they were building.

Students moved in before I ever got to see the building.

By the time I arrived to San Paolo, a few months ago, the students were already in the building.

That was like miraculous experience.

You didn't see it evolve.

You just see them in there already working.

Going to the classes, looking at the plants of the garden.

Was wonderful.

>> You're interesting about airports--you've built a few.

Pearson in Toronto, Ben Gur in Israel.

Jewel Changi, you've talked about in Singapore.

You say airports everywhere are banishing comfort, reason, efficiency and delight.

They are horrible.

>> They're nightmares most of them.

>> You're pretty harsh about America and infrastructure in the US.

>> The state of US infrastructure is tragic.

It's in terrible shape for many reasons.

It's depriving it of the funding.

It's lack of pride of place.

Recently when the bill passed in the Senate and Congress to fund the infrastructure bill, everybody got excited.

We're going to get bullet trains, we're going to get this... new airports.

We're going to get sound bridges.

I wrote an article that I say, hold your breath, it's not going to happen.

Unless we change our ways.

Unless we change the way we get projects approved.

Unless we cut the time by which you can get approvals.

Unless we negotiate with labour to work around the clock different shifts.

You can't build bullet trains and bridges.

All the things that come with infrastructure at the little minuscule pace that we do work.

>> Asia is building all this crazy stuff.

Do they just dream bigger?

>> They dream and fund bigger and they work hard.

Physically work hard.

The labour force works hard, but also works differently.

When we built Marina Bay Sands.

Six million square feet, we built it in four years.

That meant three shifts, seven days a week.

Now you could say we don't do this in the US.

We have unions, we have this.

It's all a matter of negotiating.

Some people work nights, some people work daytimes.

It's possible to negotiate.

We do not take or provide the means.

We don't seem to have the real conviction and commitment.

This is very detrimental to the growth of the economy.

and to the well-being of everyone.

Canada is just a little ahead, not much ahead.

A little ahead of the US in that respect.

>> When you look at your career you seem to have had a really rare ability.

There's lots of architects who are international.

You meet them at all the competitions and you know.

Do you think you're getting better as you get older?

>> I'm getting better.

in the sense... that there are tools that come to you with experience.

That you don't have earlier in life.

For example, I had to sit, draw and sketch as I designed.

As I imagined, I'm drawing.

I can go for a swim now and think through a building as I'm swimming.

>> I love the image of you swimming on Walden Pond.

You're very disciplined.

>> I'm very disciplined about my swimming.

In fact, I have to be careful.

If I get too lost in thoughts and I'm in a pool, I hit my head going into it.

I've lost myself in thought.

It's interesting that you get to the point where now I understand how musicians can compose when they're deaf or not listening to the music.

Just imagining the music.

These are tools that you get with experience.

There's something about the enthusiasm of youth.

Which I enjoyed experiencing.

Now I enjoy watching as a teacher which I am.

Just see the enthusiasm that comes when just beginning at it.

>> You still have so many ideas.

What are cities without automobiles?

How do we change the way we live?

How do we design and change for the future-- greater sustainability.

>> You have to.

You walk around and you see how things could be better and function better.

Totally ridiculous that we own vehicles individually.

I do.

Several so I'm guilty.

>> You love your Citroen.

>> If you think about it, for example, if we'd had cars on demand instead of owning them.

We'd cut the number of cars by two thirds.

Right away, right there.

We'd still are able to drive when and how we want.

Not even drastic measures.

Even if we don't wait for self-driving vehicles.

Or things that the future will or may bring.

Not maybe.

You walk around as an urbanist .

As an architect.

You keep saying why is it that way?

Why can't we improve on it?

Not to mention, walking into a school that looks like a prison instead of a place for learning.

>> There are so many places like that.

>> The test for architecture--for an architect.

is to completely identify with those you're designing for.

That you become them.

You experience the building through what they'll experience.

Whether it's a school, a concert hall or a house.

That takes a certain deep humility.

So I'd say if I describe myself as an architect.

I can become the kind of eyes and ears for whom I'm designing.

>> You've wrote a poem, which you include in your book.

Which is your credo , I guess.

May I get you to read it?

>> Yes, I wrote this poem in 1980.

I happened to have been in Jerusalem.

It's not specifically about that.

I was summing up my feelings about architecture.

In the midst of this post-modern architecture debate.

He who seeks truth shall find beauty.

He who seeks beauty, shall find vanity.

He who seeks order, shall find gratification.

He who seeks gratification, shall be disappointed.

He who considers himself the servant of his fellow being, shall find the joy of self expression.

He who seeks self expression, shall fall into the pit of arrogance.

Arrogance is incompatible with nature.

Through nature, the nature of the universe and the nature of man.

We shall seek truth.

If we seek truth, we shall find beauty.

>> It still holds true for you?

>> Absolutely.

I don't know how I came to write it so precisely.

It's my only poem.

I absolutely believe in what it implies.

>> What does being Canadian mean to you?

>> It means a great deal to me.

I feel that Canada was first where I became an architect.

Where I had my first opportunity as an architect.

I also feel that Canada has been very generous to me at many levels.

Think about it.

A recent graduate of architecture, 25 years old, making a proposal to build this radical building.

Making it to civil servants, who then support him.

Approve it.

Take him to the federal cabinet.

To present it to the prime minister and the cabinet.

This is the kind of support that I'm very grateful.

That's been consistent.

>> Well you hold three passports.

>> Israel, of my birth.

Canada and the U.S.

I probably can get a Singapore one, if I asked for it.

Whoever picked the title for the exhibition of my work, Global Architect , hit right on it.

At this point, I'm kind of a global citizen.

>> Well, we're proud of you obviously as Canadians.

Your career has been remarkable.

So many stories in here.

Obviously so much work to be done.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you so much.

>> We'll be back next week with another episode of Canada Files .

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