♪ >> Welcome to Canada Files.

I'm Valerie Pringle.

My guest today is Wab Kinew, the premier of Manitoba.

The first First Nations leader of a government in Canada.

Wab is a former hip-hop artist, journalist and author of the book, The Reason You Walk.

As a young man, he was convicted for drunk driving and assault.

When he was elected, he said, "I was given a second chance in life and I'd like to think I've made good on that."

>> Valerie: Welcome Wab.

>> Wab: Thanks for having me.

>> You've been called an avatar of change .

What does it mean to you to be the first Anishinaabe premier of Manitoba?

>> The positive response to our election in Manitoba has been a hugely pleasant surprise.

Because we went through a very bruising campaign, if we can call it that.

...in the midst of that, you put one foot in front of the other-- you're trying to get through.

To emerge on the other side and see a lot of optimism in our province of Manitoba.

To see a lot of people across the rest of Canada looking at Manitoba as a place that did something positive, something that our country's proud of has been very cool.

So what the meaning is for me, our part of the prairies is doing something that our country's very happy with.

And I'm glad to play a part in that.

>> There was one line I read that said, "This was Manitoba's true act of reconciliation."

>> I think Murray Sinclair might have lent his thought to that line.

It's part of reconciliation to have a government that is going to maybe push things forward in a more positive way.

I think that for all the commentary...lines that people have shared, the thing that I always try to remind myself and our team of, is we weren't elected for that.

We were elected because of healthcare.

>> Right...making history is good but you're there to... >> We've got a job to do.

>> ...run and improve the place.

>> Exactly.

All these comments are certainly very humbling and very meaningful to hear.

But I think it just fills our team -- myself anyway, with a big sense of responsibility that yeah, there's all this optimism, now we gotta deliver on it.

We've got to do something with positive feelings people have.

>> Now your dad was a chief.

You were made a chief.

Do you have any sense you were born for this?

>> The thing I would point to for people is that I grew up around First Nations politics.

My dad was an elected leader.

My mom was a political--technical staffer.

So when I was a little kid, I was growing up at the negotiating table, in the political milieu-- if we could say that.

While the type of politics that I do is very different from that world, the lessons that my parents shared with me along the way about how to treat people with respect, how to try to work towards consensus.

I think are things I've taken very seriously.

>> What do you think in the world, Canada and Manitoba has changed to enable your victory or success.

>> My dad wasn't allowed to vote when he was a young man in this country.

He was well into his adult life before he earned the right to vote.

His son, one generation later, has been elected by my fellow Manitobans to lead our province.

To be the head of our democracy for the next four years.

I think that's very meaningful.

What's changed is I'm no smarter, hard-working nor talented than people of my father's generation were.

But the road is open for somebody of my generation.

So that's what's changed.

If we live in an era now, where Canadians from all walks of life have access to engage, experience the chance to live and make the most of our lives together with people from every background, then that means we're all doing better.

We're all better off to live in a Canada like that than we have been at some points in the past.

>> Your dad's story is a remarkable one.

Not unique but an amazing one.

You documented in your book, The Reason You Walk .

Sent off at age five to a residential school, hideously abused, had a tough life.

But came to a place of peace and reconciliation himself.

>> Yeah.

Reconciliation in the big sense of the word, you know-- different visions of Canada being brought together.

>> Making peace with the Catholic church.

>> ...peace with the church, a spiritual reconciliation.

But also reconciliation on the family level.

Within the generations of the family tree.

Part of the reason I wanted to share his life story, at least through my lens of witnessing his story-- here's somebody, a Canadian who's lived a remarkable life.

Whose trajectory went through a period of historic change, but also a spiritual fulfillment and advancement.

And a personal reckoning in the most positive sense of the word.

I just feel like, as we talk about reconciliation in this historic moment in Canada, we almost do a disservice if we see it as exclusively an Indigenous issue.

Because in peering through the prism of reconciliation, we have access to a view of some very universal life lessons.

How do you make someone whole after they've been broken.

How do you bring back together two competing forces that are perhaps at odds?

How do you find a path forward when folks are not always in agreement.

These are some universal lessons all of us grapple with in life.

It just so happens that the contours of my father's experience going to residential school, trying to chart forward a traditional path in the contemporary world.

Trying to be a good dad, husband, grandparent.

That's what helped to deliver those life lessons for him.

I think our generation does well to study them.

>> Talk about being really angry as a teenager, young man.

Where did that anger come from?

>> I think it's just a learned behaviour, you know.

When you're growing up and you see that's the way to engage with the world, it's hard not to mimic it.

One of the reasons why I wrote the book was to ask the question where did that learned behaviour come from?

Basically I think that there were a lot of learned behaviours that were picked up by Indigenous people in residential schools and other government institutions of the day.

When you become armed with that historic knowledge, the question becomes do you want to be someone who is part of carrying on that legacy of learned behaviours from past mistakes?

Or you want to be part of the generation that makes an intentional choice, a conscious decision to stop that and move forward in a better way.

>> In your case, you ended up in trouble, convicted of things.

You say, "Having to find yourself at age 22 having to live back with your mom and dad >> who were essentially supervising you."

>> Yeah.

>> What turned you around?

>> It was having good parents, good community.

And the spiritual support of the broader Sundance community, in our case.

I had a mix of tough love, in some cases from my mom.

Effectively telling me, "You were raised better than this."

>> I know!

What a good line.

"You're not the son I raised."

That wounded you.

>> Yeah.

Well, it woke me up more than anything.

So yeah, a mix of tough love and having the support to then mould me into something better.

Long story short, I'm a big believer in second chances.

But I know people don't make good on their second changes alone.

They do it when they have a support structure around them.

And a path towards a more positive future.

>> Tell me about the Sundance.

>> The Sundance is as far away from the 9-to-5 cubicle life as you get in North America today.

The Sundance is a chance where our family gets to live like our ancestors did.

We get one week a year to live like our ancestors in a broad extended family camp.

With one fire in the centre of it, sleeping in a teepee.

...doing everything together and revolving around a spiritual access.

That's what it signifies to me.

In terms of the ceremony itself, you know, you don't sleep.

You sleep 3 - 4 hours a night.

You fast--no food or water.

You dance from before sun-up.

It's still dark out when you start.

You go until the evening.

It's a period of intense sacrifice.

At the end of it, you probably participate in a piercing ceremony.

Through all of this, you deliver yourself to a state far outside your normal state of being.

I'll leave it to the people smarter than myself to describe what that is.

But for me, it's basically where I feel like myself.

All the other barriers of ego, status and identity dissolve.

There's an awareness that you are connected with everything around you-- your fellow family and people.

Basically I get to feel like that for a few minutes every year.

And the rest of my year is spent trying to get back to that.

So it's pretty intense part of our lives.

>> How do you look on your career in hip-hop and rap?

Was that a significant piece in your artistic development?

>> Political development -- it taught me how to write to a certain extent and it's a skill I use everyday.

It was an amazing time of my life.

When you're in your early 20s and you get to travel to northern Canada, the Territories, Yukon.

You get to go down south to Arizona, Texas.

In our time, it was a magic trick--we would travel that far and people would know the lyrics to our music.

Because social media was new at the time.

I won't date myself by saying which platform, Myspace, was predominant at the time.

(laughter) It was a really fun time of life.

I got to meet so many cool people and see parts of the world.

Like Red Rock Desert that I would not have otherwise seen.

Yes, it was a very good formative experience.

>> Then your career as a journalist.

>> Yeah, the journalism that I had the opportunity and great privilege to do in Canada was part of the historic period that opened up this conversation of reconciliation.

It was the apology from Prime Minister Harper.

There was the launch of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

Then there was the national events of the TRC, where the survivors came forward and shared their experiences.

Really called on Canada to embrace a positive path forward- to reckon with this period.

I also had the opportunity to work overseas and across the United States.

To have my thinking that had been formed in the conversation of reconciliation.

And forged within this conversation of what it means to be an Indigenous person in Canada today.

Then to be transported into Yemen on the verge of civil war.

Or Turkey during a period of riots.

Or to be in the US during the political upheaval that we've seen over the past years.

Then to ask yourself the question, well if you're sorting out these questions of identity in the context of being an Indigenous person in Canada, what does it mean when you're no longer indigenous to the place where you are.

No longer indigenous to the place where you're working.

>> Also, what does it mean to be Indigenous in such a globalized and inter-connected world?

>> That was really important for me because working in the US in particular, there is no Indigenous program.

There you succeed on what you're bringing to the table.

There's always push-and-pull of meritocracy versus equity and stuff that we engage in.

But to be in the States and work with a very pluralistic multi-cultural global workforce that I was a part of was a hugely beneficial opportunity for me.

Because it gave me much more humanistic global perspective.

The fact that I could be with somebody on their death bed in the Middle East.

To see that their child thought of that passing the same exact way I did sitting by my father's bedside.

To be in the southern US on the Mexican border and see the parents fighting for their kids the same way I fight for my kids in Winnipeg at the hockey rink.

It just really broadened my perspective so much so.

I cannot thank the world enough for all the opportunity that I've been given over the years.

To have these experiences that have brought me to a place where I always try to understand things in a consensus view.

Or a view of unity.

>> Why did you go into politics then?

You had a good career.

>> Look how lucky I've been.

And I feel the need... >> But a lot of people would go, this is tough.

>> I feel the need to pay it back.

I've been given so much in my life.

Not least of all was the chance to have a second opportunity.

I feel like, yeah there was a period in 2015-2016, where I felt like...

I always have something to say.

Might as well put my money where my mouth is.

But on a more serious level, I felt I was given a lot in my life.

I think I have the opportunity to make a positive contribution.

And if I can help, then I probably should.

We're not going to solve problems that were created 150 years in the past within a 4-year mandate.

I do believe we can make good progress -- move things forward.

Most of all, hopefully we can bring some hope and inspiration to young people in the province.

I mean that across all communities.

I definitely see that we can inspire young Indigenous kids to achieve whatever it is they want to do.

Please don't do politics -- do arts, sports, business and academics.

The average non-Indigenous child in Manitoba is made better by growing up in a province where they're like, yup, Indigenous person as premier.

That's totally normal.

That's the way the world is and I'm doing my part to do the most that I can in a world that's inclusive and equitable.

>> You had a specific message when you were made premier, to young people.

To say, you can change your lives but you have to do it.

It was a really clear message.

Talk about that.

>> Yeah, what I said was I can't decide to do that for you.

I can't take the first step, if you will.

But, if you decide to take the first step then our government will make sure that you have the support that you need-- education, a path to healing or economic opportunity.

Whatever that thing that you need is, once you take that first step.

Better healthcare as another example.

What was very meaningful to me is that after the election, one of the first places I went to was Pimicikamak, a Cree nation in northern Manitoba.

A massive reserve in the north.

You see the housing, the other issues that I'm sure so many Canadians think about when they think of First Nations.

What was very moving for me is that a group of teachers from the community-- First Nations women who were born and raised in Pimicikamak.

Are there day in and day out trying to push for better in their community by working at the local schools.

Which are hugely overcrowded, by the way.

They had taken the words from that election night speech.

Printed it onto posters.

They were getting me to sign it.

Because they said that is the message they wanted to share with their students.

Sometimes we get caught up in left and right and what's the right choice.

The most common thing that I've heard from Canadians from all walks of life including Indigenous people, is there is an element of truth in both the statements that you can't coddle people all the time.

But you can't abandon people and expect them to pull themselves up by their bootstraps either.

Once people have decided to make a positive change, they need support including the support of the state.

>> You've made yourself, in addition to being premier, minister of inter-governmental affairs.

But you're also minister of reconciliation.

We've touched on reconciliation but what does it mean to you?

In terms of how it will work, how you see it going forward.

Or where we are in this journey.

>> I think reconciliation involves decision-making and... involves if not sacrifice, then perhaps a necessary flexibility.

There's a lot of wisdom in the old saying of Sitting Bull, Tatanka Yotanka, who said, "It's not necessary for eagles to be crows."

If we want to live together, we don't have to all be the same.

I was very lucky in my father's journey to meet the former Archbishop of Winnipeg, James Weisgerber, who is now retired.

They adopted one another as brothers in a very family-type of reconciliation, if you will.

When this man in the black robe came to our Sundance ceremony, he said a prayer that always stuck with me.

This is not verbatim but close to it.

He said a prayer to the Creator thanking the Creator for the chance for us to enjoy each other's differences.

The idea of enjoy , rather than diversity is our strength.

Or whatever the slogan is of the day.

But the fact we enjoy there's something positive.

There's something unique and exhilarating about the fact that we're not all the same.

Is one of those necessary insights that you have to have.

Not only to advance our conciliation but to believe in this project of multiculturalism.

>> Tell me about your commitment to being a good father.

Because you say that is really an act of-- a defiance of colonialism and a lot of your history.

>> That's a nice way to put it.

First and foremost, when the kids are climbing off the walls in Starbucks or in the shopping cart at Safeway, it means taking a deep breath and being patient.

On the more significant level, it's about viewing yourself within an historic context.

Recognizing again, there's nothing in particular about me.

I've been super super lucky to be able to hear these different perspectives.

One day when I was in Yemen, we were in this conversation about tradition versus modernity.

And what kind of life do you want to leave.

Our fixer , the guy translating and showing us around Yemen, as a documentary film crew, was chewing on a piece of cotton.

He was looking at me, "Nope, you can't always live by tradition because then you'll be living someone else's life."

It was a hugely profound statement and I was like, "Okay, that makes a lot of sense."

So it's the same thing in terms of, do you want to raise your kids the way that you were raised.

You don't have to be part of a chain of inter-generational trauma to believe maybe I didn't agree with everything my parents did and maybe I want to do things a little better.

I think that's a pretty universal belief.

Do you find the time on a consistent-enough basis to say here are some things that are important to me as a parent.

Here are the virtues of kindness flexibility or compassion or just giving my kid a hug when they're having a hard time.

That I want to embody as a parent.

Fro me, that is job one.

If I can do the job of premier well, I'll be very proud.

But if I can do the job of premier well, while being a good dad, then I will know that I have succeeded.

>> Tell me about your connection to the land and water.

Lake of the Woods-- your traditional territories.

>> I just love it so much-- in particular, there's something that happens when you get out onto a metal boat.

You take off from a dock and the islands and shore part.

You see the open water ahead, it's like your spirit starts to soar.

It's a very important part of my life.

For my kids to be able to experience that as well.

Sometimes we go out and go target shooting or hunting.

Sometimes we just go out and walk in the bush.

And show them this plant, mineral or this thing is important to us.

A really important part of our life.

There's a part of your humanity that comes alive when you're in nature.

So I always try to make time for that.

>> The title of your book is The Reason You Walk.

>> Which is an Anishinaabe travelling song.

>> Travelling song, yeah.

>> Can you describe the four elements to that.

What are the reasons you walk-- can you remember that??

>> This is a song that we sing at the end of every gathering.

We come from a very traditional area.

Not only is the Creator speaking to you, but as you go through life and your journey, different levels of meaning will clarify.

As to what the reason you walk is.

Early on in life, you're drawing with crayons.

This image of what the Creator is.

Yeah, the Creator made you so therefore you walk.

You go forward into life and it's like, not only that but the Creator is what animates you, right?

So the Creator is the reason you walk in terms of righteousness and goodness in life.

Then you go forward perhaps even more and it's the conception of love.

And with the Creator, that is the reason you walk.

Then at the end of your days as an elder hopefully, you understand that the Creator is the reason you walk as in that destination that you're walking home towards at the end of your days.

I was very lucky to be able to witness my father's journey-- his walk through life.

Very lucky to grow up with the Treaty 3 knowledge keepers like that.

Thinking of things in terms of the reason you or we walk, is a nice way to find some grounding principles in your journey.

>> We always finish these conversations asking what does being Canadian mean to you?

>> As an Indigenous person today, there's always a pressure to... account for the terrible impacts of the past.

I would say for me being Canadian means never forgetting but also being free from being defined by that.

And to say that I fully embrace being part of this country.

I love this country and the fact my kids and I have so much opportunity.

So I'm a patriot and I love Canada.

Being Canadian means embracing that in all its ups and downs during the tough times as well as the more proud moments.

It means believing in something positive.

And big that we can do together in this country.

>> I wish you so much luck, so many good wishes.

>> Thank you so much.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Such a pleasure.

>> Likewise.

>> We'll be back next week with another episode of Canada Files.

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