♪ >> Valerie: Welcome to Canada Files .

I'm Valerie Pringle.

My guest today is the Right Honourable Justin Trudeau.

Canada's 23rd prime minister.

He's been famous all his life, since he was born on Christmas Day 1971.

The oldest son of former Prime Minister, Pierre Trudeau, and his wife, Margaret.

He became prime minister in 2015 and won 3 consecutive elections.

He resigned in March 2025.

And I spoke with him in Ottawa at his office.

>> Valerie: Prime Minister, hello.

>> Trudeau: Hello Valerie.

>> On this momentous day where, you know, things have really come to an end--your last cabinet meeting.

After 9.5 years, how are you feeling?

>> I'm feeling really good.

I'm feeling serene about everything that I got done.

I'm feeling excited about being able to spend more time with my kids.

Excited about looking for other ways to contribute.

But...I think I had a good run.

And glad to be handing off a party that's healthy to a strong leader.

That is going to keep fighting for the things that matter.

>> You spent, you know, most of your last weeks as prime minister, dealing with President Trump.

Tariffs, trade war.

How challenging was that?

Was the worst time?

>> It's been complicated 10 years.

You know, we had the first Trump presidency, a global pandemic.

We've had Russia invading Europe in Ukraine.

We've had challenges in the Middle East.

We've had economic disruptions.

There've been...skipping some of the crises we faced, there're always difficult times.

But the job of prime minister is to be steady.

Is to remind Canadians that they got this.

It's to remind people of the challenges we've been through in the past.

And how we've fought through them--we've always got..

Whether it's a particularly bad winter storm, or a world war, Canadians know how to deal with adversity.

As long as we pull together, and lean in.

As long as we're there for each other.

We're a remarkable people.

...just reminding people of who they are and what we're able to do was the most important thing.

Quite frankly, if this had been a regular trade war, it might have been difficult to deal with.

But because Donald went so over the top on 51st state, attacks on our sovereignty, our identity, it made it very very easy for Canadians to pull together.

And get angry and insulted and want to react.

The greatest strength we have is that unity.

I mean, Canada is not divided on anything.

We're rolling up our sleeves.

We're saying yuh, this is going to hurt, going to be tough but we're going to do it.

And we will hold out and be strong longer than the Americans will be able to.

>> Do you fear the conversations about 51st state?

Do you think there is an existential crisis for Canada that we are at risk?

>> I think the threat of doing significant damage to the Canadian economy is real.

I think no matter the level of damage to the Canadian economy, we will never become the 51st state.

Almost the more damage is done to the Canadian economy, the more we will dig in our heels and be true to how we are.

There are a lot of similarities between Canadians and Americans.

We work, play and fight together in conflicts and wars.

But we're very different.

I think that is something that Canadians know better than Americans know.

And the American exceptionalism that says well of course, who wouldn't want to join with us?

We're like no, we like being your neighbours most days.

But we don't want to be like you.

We're very very proud of who we are because we know that we're the best country on earth.

>> I'd like to go back, if I could, to your childhood.

Which was here in Ottawa.

What are overriding memories you have of the time when your dad was prime minister?

And you and your two brothers were growing up here in the spotlight?

>> It was a different spotlight back then.

No social media, not the same kind of visibility that my kids and public life has now.

My biggest memories from then were, you know, watching my dad do meaningful things.

Especially on international travel because he'd... >> You travelled with him.

What was it-- >> You went to 51 countries by the time you were 13.

>> Yay.

>> Awesome.

>> And that was really one of the only places I really got to see him actually prime-ministering right?

Because I didn't sit around and watch him in the House of Commons.

But then when we travelled with him, I got to see him debating with advisors around the breakfast table about the day they were going to have.

I got to see him engaging around the world.

But the biggest understanding of what my father did actually happened after we left politics.

When for the rest of his life, random people would come up to him and say, "Thank you for what you did.

My family was able to come to Canada because of you."

Or "You made a difference in my community.

Or "You helped stand up for our rights" or whatever it was.

And I understood the very personal individual impact my father was able to have through his service.

Without ever having met these people.

The idea that you could shape and change the world for the better and really have an impact on peoples' lives in a way that was so so real!

Without being there to hold their hand in their daily lives.

But by taking care of the big levers that shape the country and the world.

That was something that always amazed me.

>> There was one story I loved of Ronald Reagan coming for lunch to your house.

>> (laughing) Yeah, he came over.

And he impressed me so deeply.

I know he and my father didn't necessarily get along.

But my father, all my life, had been reciting me poetry.

He started with Cyrano and Woodsworth.

I remember the first lines of verse he ever taught me was "And then my heart with pleasure fills and dances with the daffodils."

He used to train us and our memories on reciting poetry, poems, soliloquies, monologues and stuff.

Which is how I ended up a drama teacher for a maternity leave at one point.

That ended up being part of my story.

But I knew my father was sort of, not necessarily aligned with Reagan.

Even at, whatever I was, 12 or 13 years old.

But Reagan came in and he did the thing my father did.

Which was recite poetry.

He recited from memory The Shooting of Dan McGrew.

The Robert Service poem.

I just sat there going, "Dad, what are you talking about?

This guy's great!"

>> That voice!

I mean, it's Ronald Reagan.

>> It was wonderful.

It was one of those moments where...I understood the impact that someone being totally focused, even on a kid.

And giving them their full attention, just for a minute or two, had a lasting impact.

And that was something that I always kept with me.

This idea that you meet someone, maybe for the only time you're going to meet them in your life.

You have 20-30 seconds.

If you can actually totally focus on them and be interested and listen to them, then that adds benefit to the world.

That was something that impressed me deeply about him.

>> Now your mom, you know, you've had an up-and-down relationship with her.

You wrote about in your autobiography.

Spectacular person.

But it took her a long time to get a proper diagnosis for her bipolar disorder.

So she was struggling with that through a lot of your childhood and made things tough.

>> I didn't understand.

I remember at one point, I was in my 20s.

We were looking at old pictures.

I said, "Oh Mom, look.

Your hair was so short there!"

She said, "Yeah, I remember that.

I was really struggling with depression."

That was in my 20s, the first time,it became-- I was...oh okay.

It just clicked for me.

That she struggled with mental illness.

And the level of which it was stigmatized, which nobody talked about.

For her to just share that!

I was like oh, I know things were tough.

But things probably weren't that-- it was just an instant reaction.

But what I've seen both in supporting her through some very very difficult times in my 20s and 30s.

And what I've seen in terms of the evolution of conversations around mental health and mental wellness has been absolutely inspiring.

I've always been very open about how incredibly proud I am of my mom.

And how my father taught me a particular style of strength and it was very strong strength.

>> Intellectual.

>> This stoicism.

The unflappability.

>> Even though he was very very sensitive.

He built this shell.

My mom showed me strength through vulnerability, love, openness, even pain and hurt.

That was incredibly important to me.

So what I learned from our mom--in supporting my mom through mental health challenges, is we now know everyone knows family members or friends who are struggling.

Instead of hiding it, we're talking about it, supporting it.

And that is an incredible advance.

>> When your youngest brother died in the avalanche, Michel, that was... obviously was devastating.

You say the light went out in your dad's soul.

Your mom struggled mightily.

Then, obviously, so did you.

All of you--and your brother.

>> Yeah, we all did.

Miche was in his early 20s.

He was living the life he wanted.

He had moved to the mountains-- was filled with joy.

Was on track to start a family way before the rest of us did.

And he was just taken.

And it was-- you know, I reflect on my father never got over it.

Died a couple of years later.

My mom struggled incredibly.

We still can't talk about him without crying in each other's arms.

And it's challenging but understanding loss, how much it matters that you hold the people you love.

And that you make sure everything you do-- I remember my reflection afterwards wasn't... oh, live every day as if it's your last.

Life's not a Hallmark card.

But every year, to check in and say, am I doing the things that I need to be doing?

That I want to be doing, if my life... because I might not get another year.

We always get another day.

We might not get another year.

That idea of doing right by every single opportunity you have year over year.

Changed and shaped me in the path I would then take.

>> What made you want to become a teacher?

Why'd you do that?

>> Oh, I was ...one of those kids who was the one who was always looking out for younger siblings and cousins.

Organizing the games and doing all the things.

I loved explaining things, ...helping people learn.

I loved that when the lights when on for people.

>> I knew, okay, being a teacher is something I would love to do.

>> And yet politics happened.

>> Was it your destiny or why did you make that change?

>> You know...

Think okay, I'm not going to be like my dad and then okay, maybe.

Maybe in a different way, I will.

>> But it was the in a different way that was the key.

My father got into politics-- he was brought into politics to be a minister.

Brought into politics as a fully-formed intellectual.

With very clear ideas about what he wanted to do.

He wasn't much interested in the campaigning side of things-- ...nor being a politician.

He wanted to be a statesman-- that's what he was his entire career.

He wasn't a very active constituency MP or anything.

When I went from teaching, I went back to school for a few years.

I started doing a lot of environmental, youth activism and advocacy.

When the Liberal Party lost an election and was in need of, sort of, reviving itself, that was a moment of eye-opening for me.

Then when I went to the 2006 leadership convention, and was active, I realized that I wasn't really like my father.

In that I genuinely liked meeting and talking with people.

I was actually more like my grandfather, my mother's father.

>> Who was also a politician.

>> Jimmy Sinclair.

>> Who was known to be an extraordinarily gregarious people person on that.

I sort of said wow, I'll be...

I'm doing this a totally different way than my father did.

I'm doing this in my way.

I still remember the first time-- maybe it was six months after I eventually got elected, I read an article where they said, Justin made a comment on something in the House of Commons today.

They didn't say Justin Trudeau, son of Pierre Elliott Trudeau.

That was a moment where...okay I remember that good first moment.

Then it just sort of went on.

Now, not a lot of people reflecting on-- comparing me to my father.

They're just focused on what we're doing.

And that matters.

>> What accomplishments are you most proud of in your tenure?

>> I think it has to do around what we did for families.

What we did about making sure that we're giving supports to people who need it.

The first thing we did was the Canada Child Benefit.

Which was a means-tested tax-free payment to families that has lifted 100,000s of kids out of poverty.

We continued to do more things around food school programs.

Around $10-a-day childcare and dental care for kids who need it and now for seniors who need it as well.

Things that are actually-- I mean they're seen of as oh, they're all just such social programs.

But they're actually building a foundation of a strong economy.

Making sure people can fully participate.

Regardless of what corner of the country you're born in.

What challenges you have.

What socio-economic status you come from.

Those things that made an impact as we did them, will also carry forward to a better and richer country.

With more opportunities for people to actually achieve their potential.

That's what we need in a country like Canada.

>> How do you feel about how you dealt with COVID?

>> Canadians came together in COVID.

And were there for each other like few other countries did.

We had a higher rate of vaccination.

We were like 85% double-vaccinated.

People were out there banging on pots and pans to support our front-line workers.

People were listening to public health directives.

Quarantining, staying home.

We were able to deliver the kind of incomes support.

$500 a week.

We were able to bounce back faster from COVID.

And had a less-deadly pandemic than just about any of our peer countries.

That's because Canadians pulled together through it.

Canadians were remarkably united through that period of time.

>> Then there was a bit of a division about that.

Trucker convoy and all that.

People sort of diverged on that.

>> Well, I think it was one of the first examples of what happens when a small number of people are able to amplify their voices in ways that really really take over the entire conversation.

And one of the things that I can't get out of my mind is the stories I've heard who were dying on respirators in their hospital beds, bitterly regretful that they listened to the wrong websites, and wrong influencers.

And thought that the vaccine was more dangerous than the virus.

That was something that I found absolutely unacceptable.

As I was trying to do everything I could to keep everyone alive.

There were other people out there pushing to make people vulnerable...and scared.

And to put their lives at risk.

Yeah, that did make me angry.

And I don't apologize for being angry when it cost peoples' lives.

>> One of the issues that's most important to you is Indigenous rights, reconciliation, improving lives.

How do you feel you did on that?

>> It is an issue that was always the unfinished business of Confederation.

There's times...my father, when he repatriated the Constitution.

Put Indigenous rights into the Constitution.

That was a really important thing.

To guarantee fundamental rights.

But it was never something that was ever taken as a big political goal until our government.

It is right that we spend still a lot of time focusing on the unfinished business, the work we need to do.

But there are so many Indigenous communities, leaders and people across this country who have seen their lives significantly and materially improved over these past 10 years.

Progress happens at the speed of trust.

So much of what we needed to do was rebuild broken trust.

For many different reasons.

But for economic reasons as well.

If we are going to be mining more rare-earth elements and building the critical mineral supplies that the world needs to rely on from reliable partners.

Then we're going to need to do that in partnership and in trust with Indigenous peoples who are stewards of the land.

And rebuilding that trust is going to let us do more things responsibly around natural resources than anyone is able to do around the world.

>> The first president you dealt with, when you were first elected was Barack Obama.

Tell me about your relationship with him.

>> Barack was... is an amazing person.

Extraordinarily smart.

Totally dedicated to the seriousness of his job.

He's a very good man.

>> Did he give you advice about Trump when he was elected?

Did he tell you to hold the mountain top?

>> That's exactly...he said, "Hold the mountain top."

I said oh no, I appreciate that but no, we're on a good run.

I think we're going to expand the mountain top.

We're going to take the valleys too.

He said, "Hold the mountain top."

Uh, and that was very good advice.

Through the...first time with Donald Trump.

Who quite frankly, you know, one of the things that I remind Donald of, when we speak is, we did big things together.

The renegotiation of the NAFTA agreement into the USMCA.

Has created jobs, growth and benefit in the United States, in Canada and Mexico.

It was a good deal that has made our economies stronger, more resilient, created jobs.

All of it has created prosperity.

It was a big thing to have done together.

Donald is rightly proud of it, as am I, as are the Mexicans.

This was a good thing.

That ability to focus on things we agreed on.

Like building a stronger economy was the important thing I got to do.

But it was all about... yes, working with whoever the Americans elect.

While standing up clearly and strongly for Canadian values and interests.

Walking that line carefully but solidly was what we did.

>> Your mom has famously told you that, you know, there were enormous personal costs to a life in politics.

Your marriage ended, as your parents' had done, during your time in office.

Which would have been incredibly hard.

You lived it as a kid and you're doing it with your kids.

>> It was...I have had a 20-year partnership with Sophie.

That was just incredible.

And we remain very good friends.

Co-parents.

....and I learned a bit about how to manage separation from my parents, who weren't always good at it.

But tried.

>> But loved each other throughout.

>> And that example of-- I'll love Sophie as a friend, as a best friend, for the rest of my life.

And that's an example I want to give to my kids.

But politics is really really hard.

And the level of full commitment that I had to give to my job, and then a little time for my kids.

And probably not enough time for Sophie.... was really difficult.

But we grow, we learn.

We have three extraordinary kids out of it.

Who we've worked very hard to try and keep normal.

In a very abnormal life.

>> So why did you stay so long?

Because, you know, you could have left 1...2...3 years ago.

You decided to stay on.

>> I was not ready to leave.

I still had more to do.

And I still have more to do right now.

I'm leaving full of energy and determination for this country.

But I'm also really, like I said, serene about where I am.

Excited about figuring out next steps.

I have no idea about what they're going to be.

Excited on catching up on sleep, basketball tournaments, recitals and everything that I will be present for.

I'm looking forward to cooking again--I love to cook!

Sophie always complained that I'm too slow when I cook.

So I never cooked that much around the family.

Every now and then, on a weekend, I'll cook a little bit.

I've now created a list of recipes of things I look forward to learning how to make.

I'm going to start with something easy--shepherd's pie.

But then, I'm going to get more and more... Yuh, I'm just looking forward to getting a certain level of life back.

And figuring out a pace that is not the unbelievable intensity of being a prime minister.

Even though I loved it every step of the way.

>> The final question we always ask is what does being Canadian mean to you?

>> It means not being afraid to be challenged by differences.

We're a country that came together, first English & French and formed by the Indigenous people who lived there.

That were in conflict for centuries, especially English and French.

And we decided to build a country that would have people who were totally different.

Culturally, religiously, linguistically, historically from each other and yet we were Canadian.

When you have that level of diversity, you have a level of resilience.

Where all the different solutions & stories that come together are so much greater than the sum of their parts.

So Canadians are people who are open to each other, open to respecting and being challenged by each other.

A place that goes beyond tolerance.

'Cause when you say I tolerate you.

Come on.

Who really wants to be tolerated?

I put up with your right to exist but don't come and date my daughter.

Is sort of the message around tolerance.

There's places in the world where tolerance be a very good thing.

But Canada, we should be talking about acceptance.

There's not a religion in the world that says tolerate thy neighbour-- it's love your neighbour.

It's be open to each other.

Learn from each other.

Be challenged without being threatened by someone who has different perspectives or stories.

That's what Canadians do so well.

When we're cheering this flag, in tough times and pulling together for each other, that's us at our best.

When we're at our best, nobody can stop us.

>> Thank you, Sir.

>> Thank you, Valerie.

>> Thank you for all you've done.

>> Appreciate it.

>> Cheers!

We'll be back next week with another episode of Canada Files .

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