LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: I also want to get to the other big story this week, which is the judiciary pushback against the president's agenda.

And so up first, a Trump appointed federal judge in Texas I want to run through some of what they said in their ruling, said that Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act exceeds the scope of the statute and is unlawful.

And when ordering the release of a green card holder, Mohsen Mahdawi, another federal judge said legal residents are being arrested and threatened for their political views.

Our nation has seen times like this before, especially during the red scare.

Lastly, Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson said, administration -- said this, administration threats and harassments are attacks on our democracy that are undermining our Constitution and the rule of law.

Ali, what's the significance of this pushback from judges?

ALI VITALI: I mean, first of all, it shouldn't matter who appointed the judge.

You're a judge and the courts exist as a check on the executive and other branches in this country for a reason.

It is as the founders designed it.

All of the members, Republican and Democrat, who walked around with the Constitution in their pocket know that very well.

And yet it brings us to this point with the administration why people are toying with the idea of, is this country in a constitutional crisis or not?

Because what happens when the courts issue orders, and, yes, the appeals court process exists for a reason.

That is how the administration is working through it.

But at the same time, they are sort of openly flaunting and toying with the idea that they don't have to listen to the judiciary.

I thought it was so telling when the president this week in an interview with ABC talked about, well, I could get Kilmar Abrego Garcia back from El Salvador, and yet he didn't, despite the fact that the court said he had to facilitate, or his administration did, the return of this person so that they could just go through due process.

And I think that's the thing that Americans who are watching have to remember, that is what you're afforded in this country, whether you're a citizen of it or not, the due process.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: On that note of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, despite judges repeatedly warning the White House, saying, it seems like you're defying our orders, Secretary of State Marco Rubio had this to say when he was asked about Garcia.

REPORTER: Have you been in touch with El Salvador about returning Abrego Garcia?

Has a formal request from this administration been made?

MARCO RUBIO, Secretary of State: Well, I would never tell you that.

And you know who else I'll never tell?

A judge.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Michael, why is the administration doing this?

Why taunt the judges like that?

MICHAEL SCHERER: Look, the defining fact of the first three months of this second term of Trump is that so many of the institutions that so successfully opposed him in the first term have been absent or in retreat.

And the one exception to that is the legal process, and that's because there've been so many lawsuits filed against what DOGE has been doing, against some of the budget stuff they've been doing, against the immigration actions, birthrights issue.

You can go on and on.

And judges operate at a different tempo than politicians or executive orders, and so we're a little bit delayed.

But you have seen in the last few weeks a really dramatic move by the judiciary to step in and say, you can't be doing this to these law firms.

We're going to find out soon what they can do to Harvard University, and really upsetting the whole o overview of their immigration, deportation strategy here on a number of fronts, and there's real frustration.

I mean, if you listen to what the administration says every day, they come out and they're angry that this is the place where they're meeting resistance and they haven't yet been able to overcome it.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Leigh Ann, you said that some Republicans are getting heartburn over tariffs, but are they getting heartburn over the near daily rulings from the judiciary, saying things like the president's actions are unlawful or they're on the pathway to lawlessness?

LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: Not really.

No.

So, the way Congress works is they can think of about one thing at a time, and they are busy with their own legislation of trying to extend Trump's tax cuts.

But there has also been legislation and some that has -- one that has passed in the House, which was an attempt to actually punish the judiciary for some of these decisions, including the -- you know, trying to take away national injunctions so that they're much more narrow in scope of what judges can do.

And so there is an effort among Republicans on the Hill to defend the administration and the president on this.

They think that this is a very easy place to do so.

And it kind of -- they don't have any direct confrontation with it, but it's an easy way to stand with the president.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: It's striking, even though polling recently showed that on the question of due process, it seems like Americans are not on the administration's side.

But, Alex, Rubio has become -- the secretary of state has become the face of many of these aggressive immigration actions.

I mean, talk about how he's taken that on.

ALEXANDER WARD: I mean, well, first shout out to Congress.

I too can only think about one thing at one time, but I've been thinking a lot about Rubio lately.

And it's amazing, you know, he gets unanimously approved into this job, in part when you had lawmakers basically saying they thought, look, you'd have to play the Trump game, he'd have to say what he had to say, but he would mostly try to keep this administration in a somewhat within the bounds.

That just hasn't happened.

He stood by as USAID was decimated, despite its codification in federal statute.

He has pulled the visas of, you know, visa holders over op-eds that they've written.

He has defied courts and openly mocked justices.

And in foreign policy, he has, you know, stood by as well, or not done much when the president has been making deals or pushing diplomacy forward that could help, let's say, Russia over Ukraine.

So, yes, Rubio's just not been who people thought he would be.

And -- LEIGH ANN CALDWELL: -- A former gang of eight member.

ALEXANDER WARD: On immigration in particular, right?

So, he's just a different person, or at least he's playing this role in a different way.

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes.

And he's appearing to be much more loyal to Trump than someone like Mike Waltz.

So, that might be the lesson for Mike Waltz here.

Unfortunately, we have to leave it there.

I know there's a lot more to talk about.

But thank you to all of our guests for joining me and thank you at home for watching us.