>>> WE TURN NOW TO ACADEMIA IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE ELITE PRESSURE FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.

SOME ANYWAY.

IT COMES AS PRESIDENT TRUMP SUGGEST HE MAY STOP GIVING GRANTS TO HARVARD UNIVERSITY AS THEY PUSH BACK ON HIS ESCALATING DEMANDS.

WHAT IS THE DEMAND OF THEIR PUSHBACK?

IN AN EXCLUSIVE FOR THE "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" DOUGLAS BELKIN DISCUSSES JUST THAT.

HERE IS MORE.

>> THANK YOU.

YOU WROTE A PIECE IN THE JOURNAL THIS WEEK THAT WAS TITLED ELITE UNIVERSITIES PROVIDE PRIVATE COLLECTIVE TO --TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

WHO ARE THE UNIVERSITIES?

HOW MANY ARE THERE?

>> THERE'S ABOUT 10 UNIVERSITIES, MOST ARE PRIVATE SCHOOLS IN BLUE STATES THAT HAVE BEEN TAPPED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S TASK FORCE TO COMBAT ANTI-SEMITISM OR A FAIR FEAR THAT THEY WILL BE INVESTIGATED SHORTLY.

>> SO WHAT IS THEIR GOAL IN THIS PRIVATE NETWORK?

>> THEIR HOPE IS TO COORDINATE RESPONSES SO THEY DO NOT KIND OF GET PICKED OFF THE WAY THE LAW FIRMS DID.

THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS THEY ARE VERY PROTECTIVE OF THEIR HOPE IS TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN INTEGRITY AMONG THOSE SPECIFIC POINTS SO THEY DO NOT NEGOTIATE THEM AWAY ONE AT A TIME.

>> DID YOU LEARN ANYTHING OR IS THIS A RESPONSE TO WHAT HAPPENED AT COLUMBIA?

>> IT IS.

COLUMBIA, AS FAR AS A LOT OF THE SCHOOLS ARE CONCERNED IS A BLUEPRINT FOR NOT TO HANDLE THE SITUATION.

A LOT OF SCHOOLS FEEL THEY HAVE COMPROMISED THEMSELVES BY NEGOTIATING THE TASK FORCE.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED THEY ARE UNDER TREMENDOUS PRESSURE IN COLUMBIA INTERNALLY AND EXTERNALLY.

THEY ARE KIND OF IN A DIFFERENT CATEGORY IN SOME WAYS.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THERE IS SUCH A DIFFERENT DIRECTION COLUMBIA TOOK FROM WHAT HARVARD IS DOING NOW?

>> FIRST OF ALL THEY WERE FIRST.

ZERO FOR THE PROTESTS IN THE ENCAMPMENTS WERE COLUMBIA.

AND THE INTERNAL CONFLICTS, WITH FACULTY WITH FACULTY, AND PRESTIGE, THAT IS PROBABLY MORE THERE THAN ANYWHERE.

THEY HAD MORE ISSUES TO DEAL WITH.

THERE'S ALSO A SIGNIFICANT OF FOLKS, FACULTY, TRUSTEES, ADMINISTRATIVE BELIEVE THE SCHOOL NEEDS A COURSE CORRECTION IN THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS OFFERING THINGS OR SUGGESTING THEY MOVE ANY DIRECTION THEY WANTED TO GO INTO ANYWAY.

>> WHEN IT COMES TO THE TYPE OF CONTROL THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WANTS TO EXERCISE AND WHAT MIGHT BE HAPPENING AT COLUMBIA OR WHAT MIGHT BE AGREED TO, WHAT IS THE THING THE UNIVERSITIES THAT ARE IN THIS NEW SORT OF CONSORTIUM ARE MOST AFRAID OF?

>> THEY ARE CONCERNED OF GIVING AWAY THEIR INDEPENDENCE.

THEIR ACADEMIC INDEPENDENCE.

WHAT THEY DO NOT WANT IS FOR THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, OR ANYONE ELSE, TO DICTATE WHO THEY HIRE, WHAT THEY RESEARCH, HOW THEY TEACH.

THESE ARE THE REDLINES THAT THEY SORT OF ARE CONGEALING AROUND.

>> THIS WEEK HARVARD RELEASED A REPORT FOLLOWING THEIR INTERNAL PROBE ON HOW THE UNIVERSITY DEALT WITH ANTI-SEMITISM.

WHAT DID THEY FIND?

>> IT WAS A REALLY EXPANSIVE REPORT.

AND SORT OF THE HEADLINE FINDING IS THAT THEY FOUND THERE WAS A LOT OF ANTI- SEMITISM AND THE CULTURE THAT PRODUCED IT.

SO, THEY TOOK THE LONG VIEW, THEY LOOKED AT THE JEWISH COMMUNITY AT HARVARD OVER TIME, THEY LOOKED AT THE BOYCOTT DIVESTED SANCTION MOVEMENT OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS AND HOW THAT INFLUENCED THE CAMPUS.

THEY LOOKED AT THE CURRICULUM, SOME SCHOOLS, THE DIVINITY SCHOOL, THE PUBLIC HEALTH SCHOOL, SOME CLASSES FOUND TO BE OFFERING THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE PALESTINIANS AND NOT THE ISRAELIS, NOT THE ZIONISTS.

THEY FOUND THAT THERE WAS SOME LEVEL OF INDOCTRINATION IN SOME OF THE CLASSES.

>> HAS THERE BEEN A RESPONSE IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO BE HARVARD REPORT?

>> THEY ARE SAYING THAT HARVARD NEEDS TO HOLD HIMSELF UP TO A HIGHER STANDARD, PROTECT JEWISH STANDARDS.

AND IF THEY ARE THE RECIPIENT OF BILLIONS OF FUNDS, THEY NEED TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ALL STUDENTS TREATED WITH RESPECT AND NOT FEEL HARASSED ON CAMPUS.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE INSTITUTIONS, THEY HAVE THE ADVANTAGE IN THE MASSIVE ENDOWMENTS, THAT THEY ARE CERTAINLY GOING TO LOSE SIGNIFICANT SUMS OF MONEY IF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAYS IT WILL DO WHAT IT SAYS IT WILL DO AND WITHDRAW SOME OF THE GRANT FUNDING, ET CETERA.

BUT THEY HAVE A WAY TO ABSORB THE SHOCK WAY BETTER THAN PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES, SMALLER COLLEGES, >> THEY HAVE A $53 BILLION ENDOWMENT, IF ANYBODY CAN ENDURE WHAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS THREATENING AND MOVING ON, IT IS HARVARD UNIVERSITY.

WHAT HARVARD WOULD SAY IS THAT THERE ENDOWMENT IS ESSENTIALLY SPOKEN FOR.

NOT ALL OF IT BUT HUGE CHUNKS.

WHEN YOU GIVE MONEY TO THE UNIVERSITY, ENDOWING A CHAIR OR SPORTS PROGRAM, THE MONEY IS LEGALLY BOUND IN THAT DIRECTION.

THEY DO HOWEVER HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AT THEIR DISCRETION THAT THEY USE FOR THE OPERATING BUDGET.

SO THEY HAVE MORE LATITUDE THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER UNIVERSITY IN THE COUNTRY.

>> NOW, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE POINTS OF LEVERAGE THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION STILL HAS LEFT?

I MEAN I HAVE HEARD THAT THE TAX-EXEMPT STATUS FOR EXAMPLE THAT UNIVERSITIES AND NONPROFIT COLLEGES ENJOY, THAT IS ONE THING THEY ARE LOOKING AT.

>> A NUMBER OF THINGS.

THEY HAVE ASKED FOR REPORTS FROM SOMETHING CALLED 117, WHEN A UNIVERSITY GETS $250,000 OR THEY NEED TO FILE PAPERWORK.

ESSENTIALLY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAYS THEY DID NOT DO THAT, THEY HAVE NOT DONE IT CORRECTLY.

AS A RESULT THEY ARE OUT OF STEP WITH THE PAPERWORK THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DEMANDS WHEN THEY GET ANY KIND OF RESEARCH GRANT.

THAT PUTS THE GRANTS AT RISK.

ALSO, THEY HAVE THE ABILITY POTENTIALLY TO TURN OFF THE VEIL FOR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS FROM COMING ON CAMPUS.

AND POTENTIALLY FACULTY.

THERE IS UPWARDS OF 10,000 PEOPLE AT HARVARD THAT COME IN FROM OTHER COUNTRIES THAT THEY PROVIDE A LOT OF MONEY, EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY, THESE ARE BRILLIANT PEOPLE COMING IN FROM AROUND THE WORLD TO DO RESEARCH AND STUDY, SO IT CUTS HARVARD OFF AT THE KNEES IF THEY ARE TO CUT THAT OFF.

>> WHAT ARE THE RIPPLE EFFECTS HERE?

NOT THAT THEY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO THOSE THINGS THAT HARVARD YET, BUT EVEN THE THREAT OF POTENTIAL THAT THOSE THINGS CAN HAPPEN?

DOES THAT HAVE A CHILLING RESEARCHERS THAT ARE THINKING ABOUT TAKING A JOB AT HARVARD OR ANOTHER UNIVERSITY THAT MIGHT BE IN THE CROSSHAIRS?

>> THIS AFFECTS THE UNIVERSITY ON EVERY LEVEL.

AS YOU CAN IMAGINE RESEARCH IS TAKING IT ON THE CHIN RIGHT NOW IN A COUPLE OF WAYS.

THERE ARE MAJOR GRANTS THAT ARE IN SOME PLACES GLOBAL OR LINK TO SCHOOLS AROUND THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE BEEN SHUT OFF OR THREATENED TO BE CLOSED.

SO CAREERS ARE AT STAKE IN TERMS OF THE RESURGENCE AND HOW THEY CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD IF THAT MONEY DOES NOT HAPPEN.

SOME OF THEM WILL TRY TO MOVE TO DIFFERENT UNIVERSITIES, POTENTIALLY DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

ONE OF THE MORE LONG-STANDING POTENTIAL IMPACTS COULD BE THE GRAD STUDENTS.

THESE GRANTS FUND RESEARCH, AND THAT MONEY IS USED TIRE PHD'S, POST GRADS THAT DO A LOT OF THE WORK IN THE LABORATORIES.

IF THEY DO NOT HAVE MONEY TO PAY FOR THEM THEN THEY CANNOT ENTER INTO THE RESEARCH AND EVENTUALLY SQUELCHING THEIR CAREER IN THE U.S. BEFORE THEY >> I SAW --INVITING SCIENTISTS TO COME OVER TO EUROPEAN UNIVERSITIES AND COUNTRIES.

IS IT TOO EARLY TO SEE ANY ACTIVE POACHING GOING ON?

>> THE ATTEMPTS ARE HAPPENING AND WE WILL BEGIN TO SEE THINGS LIKE THIS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

A COUPLE OF OTHERS HAVE SUGGESTED THEY ARE GOING IN A COUPLE HAVE.

IT IS NOT SUCH A SMALL THING TO PULL UP A RESEARCH LAB INVENTORY.

IT TAKES YEARS, IT IS A TREMENDOUS INVESTMENT IN TIME AND BRAINPOWER TO GET THESE THINGS, IT WOULD BE MUCH MORE EFFICACIOUS FOR THE UNIVERSITIES AND RESEARCHERS AT THIS GETS NEGOTIATED TO SOME KIND OF COMPROMISE.

>> YOU KIND OF POINTED OUT IN THIS ARTICLE TOO THAT THIS ISSUE OF THE WHITE HOUSE VERSUS HARVARD BE COMING TO A HEAD NOW BUT IS A LONG TIME MAKING.

EXPLAIN.

>> THE REASON THIS IS SUCH AN INTERESTING ISSUE, SUCH A POLITICALLY POWERFUL ISSUE FOR TRUMP, BECAUSE THE UNIVERSITIES HAVE LOST PUBLIC SUPPORT OVER THE PAST 15 YEARS.

FAITH IN HIGHER EDUCATION PLUMMETED BY SOMETHING LIKE 25 POINTS ACCORDING TO GALA, BETWEEN 2015 AND 2023.

LOT OF THINGS, BECAUSE THE UNIVERSITIES HAVE LOST THE PUBLIC, THERE IS ANGER TOWARD THEM, FRUSTRATION, FOLKS FEEL LIKE THERE IS A CONTRACT THAT UNIVERSITIES, AN IMPLICIT CONTRACT THAT UNIVERSITIES HAVE WITH THE PUBLIC IN EXCHANGE FOR SIGNIFICANT FUNDING AND FREEDOM.

THEY NEED TO GRADUATE STUDENTS THAT ARE BOTH APPEARED FOR THE LABOR MARKET AND PREPARED TO BE GOOD CITIZENS.

AND THERE IS A LARGE SWATH OF THIS COUNTRY THAT LEAVE THEY HAVE FAILED ON BOTH OF THOSE ACCOUNTS.

THEY ARE ANGRY ABOUT IT AND THEY WANT TO SEE THEM PUNISHED.

BETWEEN WHERE THIS GROUP OF UNIVERSITIES WANT TO GET TO?

WHETHER THEY THINK THEY HAVE ANY KIND OF NEGOTIATING POWER OR LEVERAGE, OR ABILITY TO TALK TO THE ADMINISTRATION.

>> THERE IS CURRENTLY A COURT CASE HAPPENING --TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IN THE FEDERAL COURT OF BOSTON.

THAT WILL PLAY OUT OVER TIME.

THE NEGOTIATIONS ARE HAPPENING BETWEEN UNIVERSITIES.

THESE UNIVERSITIES ARE MAJOR EMPLOYERS SO CONGRESSPEOPLE, SENATORS, GOVERNORS, BUSINESS LEADERS ARE ALL INVESTED IN SOME KIND OF SETTLEMENT, SOME KIND OF WAY FORWARD.

THE ENTIRE ECONOMY OF MASSACHUSETTS, TO SOME EXTENT, IS CONTINGENT ON THE SUCCESS OF HARVARD.

YOU CAN MULTIPLY THAT BY PRETTY MUCH EVERY MAJOR CONSTITUTION IN THE CITY, IN THE STATE RATHER.

SO THE STAKES ARE ENORMOUS.

THE STAKES FOR THE AMERICAN RESEARCH THAT COMES OUT OF THE UNIVERSITIES IS THE FOUNDATION FOR A LOT OF THE BUSINESSES THAT POWER OUR ECONOMY AND KEEP THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW THE HEGEMON THAT WE ARE.

THERE IS A LOT AT PLAY.

>> IS THERE A SENSE THAT THESE UNIVERSITIES AT THIS IS A BLIP?

THIS IS SOMETHING THEY CAN WEATHER, THEY CAN NEGOTIATE THROUGH?

OR THAT THIS IS A WATERSHED MOMENT THAT THERE WILL BE A BEFORE AND AFTER WHERE THEY WILL HAVE TO STRUCTURALLY AND TACTICALLY THINK DIFFERENTLY?

>> I DO NOT KNOW ANYBODY THAT DOES NOT THINK THAT THIS IS NOT A WATERSHED MOMENT.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME PUSHBACK FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN REGARDS TO ISSUES AROUND TITLE IX.

BUT IT DID NOT GO TO THIS EXTREME.

THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN UNIVERSITIES, RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES, AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN SO TIGHT BEFORE, SO MANY GENERATIONS, THAT THE SHOT THAT TRUMP IS CALLING NOW IS FROM A PLAYBOOK THAT HAD NOT BEEN WRITTEN BEFORE.

>> YOU KNOW WHEN YOU THINK ACADEMIA BRINGS, NOT JUST TO COLLEGE STUDENTS, BUT REALLY WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT INNOVATION, THE ECONOMY, AND FUTURE JOBS, RIGHT?

WHETHER SOMEBODY DECIDES TO COME UP WITH AN IDEA HERE VERSUS IN EUROPE SOMEWHERE, WHAT THE EFFECTS OF THAT ARE.

IS THERE ANYBODY TRYING TO COMPROMISE QUANTIFY WHAT UNIVERSITIES ARE DOING TODAY AND ABROAD TO THE ECONOMY.

AND IF THIS STRUCTURAL CHANGE HAPPENS, WHAT THE CONSEQUENCES MIGHT BE.

>> UNIVERSITIES ARE MAYBE THE EIGHTH LARGEST EXPORT BUSINESS IN THE COUNTRY.

IS A FUNNY WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT.

THERE IS A 1.1 MILLION STUDENTS OVERSEAS THAT STUDY AT AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES.

THEY BRING THEIR DOLLARS INTO THIS COUNTRY, ABOUT $48 BILLION.

I THINK WE SPEND AROUND, WE GET ABOUT 120 BILLION FOR FUEL AND GAS.

IT IS A HUGE EXPORT INDUSTRY.

THAT ALONE IS ENOUGH TO PUT A SIGNIFICANT DENT IN THE ECONOMIES OF THESE UNIVERSITIES.

ADDING ON THAT, THE RESEARCH.

IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR iPHONE, THERE IS HUNDREDS OF PATENTS THAT WERE DEVELOPED AT UNIVERSITIES.

IT IS QUIETLY DONE.

EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT STEVE JOBS DID.

HE ASSEMBLED THE COLLECTIVE BRAINPOWER ASSEMBLED AT THESE UNIVERSITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO YOU CAN MAKE A PRETTY STRONG CASE, THE iPHONE THAT WE ARE HOLDING, THE INTERNET WE ARE SPEAKING ON, UNLESS THESE UNIVERSITIES HAD DONE THE RESEARCH THAT IS NOW BEING THREATENED.

>> ARE THE PRESIDENTS AND THE BOARDS CONCERNED ABOUT BRAND DAMAGE?

AND HOW FUTURE CLASSES OF APPLICANTS OR STUDENTS OR PROFESSORS OR RESEARCH ASSISTANTS ARE GOING TO MEASURE THEM?

IN WHAT SEEMS LIKE A POLITICALLY UNWINNABLE SITUATION.

>> THERE IS A REASON THIS TASK FORCE EXISTS, WITH REGARD TO SEMITISM ON CAMPUS.

IN THE REPORT YESTERDAY FOUND SIGNIFICANT ANTI-SEMITISM, AND WITH ISLAMOPHOBIA THEY RELEASED TWO REPORTS.

BEHIND THAT WAS A DECLINE IN STANDARDS OF CURRICULUM AND TEACHING.

WHICH IS VERY DAMAGING TO HARVARD'S BRAND.

THIS IS THE GREATEST INSTITUTION OF THE WESTERN CIVILIZATION, IF YOU ASK FOLKS AT HARVARD YARD.

SO THEY ARE COMPROMISED AT THE INTEGRITY OF THEIR TEACHING.

THEN THERE BRAND IS ABSOLUTELY TARNISHED AS A RESULT.

SO, THAT IS HALF OF IT.

>> WHAT IS THE OTHER HALF?

>> IF THE UNIVERSITIES ARE SEEN BUYING FOLKS ON THE LEFT AS COMPROMISING TOO QUICKLY OR EASILY, THEY WILL CONSIDER THESE UNIVERSITIES TO BE SELLOUTS.

THEY WILL SAY YOU KNOW YOU HAVE THIS TREMENDOUS WEALTH AND PRIVILEGE AND POWER AND IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO LEVERAGE IT, STICK YOUR NEXT OUT, COLLECTIVELY, AGAINST WHAT A LOT OF FOLKS WOULD CONSIDER A CREEPING FASCISM, IT WILL DAMAGE THE BRAND FROM THE OTHER DIRECTION.

>> DOUG, THANKS SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME ON.