>> NOW AS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING, DESPITE WORRYING ECONOMIC RESULTS, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS BEEN TAKING A VICTORY LAP TO MARK THE FIRST 100 DAYS OF THE SECOND TERM, GOING SO FAR AS TO SAY HIS SUCCESS SURPASSES ANY IN U. S. HISTORY.

>> WE ARE HERE TONIGHT IN THE HEARTLAND OF THE NATION TO CELEBRATE THE MOST SUCCESSFUL FIRST 100 DAYS OF ANY ADMINISTRATION IN THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, THAT IS ACCORDING TO MANY MANY PEOPLE.

>> PERHAPS NOT ACCORDING TO OUR NEXT GUEST, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN TIMMY --WHO PUTS THE TRUMP PRESIDENCY IN FULL CONTEXT .

>> WELCOME BACK.

>> PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

>> WE ARE AT THE 100 DAY MARK OF THE SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE SO FAR?

>> I THINK WE SHOULD ASSESS THE TRUMP 100 DAYS IN LIGHT OF THE GOLD STANDARD .

THAT WHOLE TERM COMES FROM THE FIRST TERM OF FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT.

FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT MAINE THEME WAS TO BANISH FEAR FROM AMERICAN SPACE.

HE WANTED TO RESTORE THE PEOPLE'S CONFIDENCE IN AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS.

BANKS, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

HE WANTED AMERICANS TO FEEL THAT THEY HAD SOME PREDICTIVE CAPACITY OVER THE FUTURE .

AND BY THOSE STANDARDS, I THINK DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE THE OPPOSITE.

DONALD TRUMP TRIED TO INTRODUCE FEAR INTO THE AMERICAN SPACE.

FEAR AMONG AMERICAN UNIVERSITIES AND AMONG LAW FIRMS AND INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS AND RECENT IMMIGRANTS.

FEAR AMONG MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ON THE HILL.

IN THAT SENSE, THE 100 DAYS THAT WE WITNESSED WHICH HAVE BEEN AS ACTIVE AND REVOLUTIONARY AS FDR 'S 100 DAYS, THEY HAVE HAD THE EXACT OPPOSITE OBJECTIVE.

THAT IS WHY IT WILL BE SAFE TO SAY THAT LIBERAL AND CONSERVATIVE HISTORIANS WILL LOOK UPON THESE HUNDRED DAYS OF DESTRUCTIVE.

>> ONE OF THE BIG DIFFERENCES IS FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT DID MOST OF HIS WORK BY PASSING LAWS THROUGH CONGRESS.

THERE WERE 12 PIECES OF LEGISLATION.

TRUMP HAS NOT FOLLOWED THAT.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A 100 DAY PERIOD LED BY CONGRESS, MANY PEOPLE ASSOCIATED THIS ACTIVITY WITH RANK AND ROOSEVELT.

ROOSEVELT, AND HIS THIRD FIRESIDE CHAT , AFTER THE 100 DAYS, MADE CLEAR TO EVERYONE THAT WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS IN THE AMERICAN TRADITION AND HE WAS SIMPLY IMPLEMENTING LAWS PASSED BY CONGRESS.

HE TOO UNDERSTOOD THAT THE AMERICAN TRADITION WAS TO NOT HAVE A DICTATOR.

FAST-FORWARD TO THE CURRENT TIME, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SOUGHT TO ACT AS IF HE WERE THE ONLY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

WE DO NOT LIVE IN A DICTATORSHIP BUT HE ACTED IN THE STYLE OF A DICTATOR.

>> LET ME STOP YOU THERE.

WHOSE FAULT IS THAT?

>> TWO THINGS , HE HAS GONE ABOUT HIS BUSINESS ACTING RHETORICALLY AND PHYSICALLY AS IF THERE IS NO OTHER BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT.

INDEED, WHEN BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT STOOD UP TO HIM, HE HAS BEEN VICIOUS AND ANNOUNCING THEM.

WE JUST SAW A PERP WALK OF AN AMERICAN JUDGE.

WHEN THE OTHER BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT HAVE SOUGHT TO OPPOSE HIM, HE HAS NOT ACTED IN THE SPIRIT OF FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, BY SPEAKING OF THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT.

HE TALKED ABOUT THE PRESIDENCY AS THE SEAT OF ALL POWER.

WHOSE FAULT IS IT?

THAT THERE IS A PERMISSIVE ENVIRONMENT, OF COURSE IT IS THE FAULT OF ELECTED REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE BEEN FEARFUL OF OPPOSING THE PRESIDENT.

THAT IS WHY I AM TALKING ABOUT THE INSTALLATION OF FEAR, NOT SIMPLY IN PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS BUT IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY ITSELF.

>> SHE SAID WE ARE ALL AFRAID.

WE ARE AT A TIME AND A PLACE AND HAVE NOT BEEN HERE BEFORE.

I AM OFTEN TIMES ANXIOUS ABOUT USING MY VOICE.

RETALIATION IS REAL.

>> IT CHILLS ME.

IT IS A CHILLING STATEMENT .

BY THE SENATOR.

IT ECHOES SOMETHING THAT MITT ROMNEY I THINK WROTE IN HIS DIARY.

HE HAD HIRED SECURITY FOR HIS FAMILY.

HE WROTE DURING THE FIRST IMPEACHMENT , HE UNDERSTOOD WHY THERE WERE SO MANY COLLEAGUES THAT KNEW THEY SHOULD BE VOTING FOR IMPEACHMENT BUT WERE AFRAID TO BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID OF THE EFFECT ON THEIR FAMILIES.

THE PHYSICAL EFFECT.

HE SAID THEY CAN'T AFFORD 24/7 SECURITY LIKE I CAN.

THAT ECHOED THE FEAR THAT EXISTED BACK IN THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

WE SAW THAT ALSO IN THE WAY IN WHICH THE SENATE DEALT WITH THE CONFIRMATIONS OF THE NEW CABINET.

THERE WERE A NUMBER OF SENATORS WHO FOUND A WAY TO LEAK THE FACT THAT WE ARE NOT HAPPY WITH SOME OF THE CHOICES.

FOR EXAMPLE, SECRETARY HEGSETH AT THE PENTAGON OR RFK JUNIOR AT HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES.

IN THE END THEY WERE SO FEARFUL OF A PRIMARY CHALLENGE AND FEARFUL OF THEIR OWN SUPPORTERS THAT THEY FELL INTO LINE.

>> THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING FEARFUL OF A PRIMARY CHALLENGE OR BEING FEARFUL OF PHYSICAL HARM AND YOU HAVE TO HIRE A BODYGUARD.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS IS?

>> WALTER, LET'S MAKE CLEAR, THE FIRST BRANDING OF THIS NEW TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, IN MY VIEW, WAS THE PARDONING OF THE JANUARY SIXTH FELONS.

WHEN YOU PARDON VIOLENT FELONS, YOU ARE SENDING A SIGNAL ABOUT LAW AND ORDER.

UNLIKE PRESIDENT JOHNSON , WHEN HE ISSUED A BLANKET PARDON TO THE LEADERS OF THE REBELLION , IN 1868, HE DID NOT DENY THAT THEY COMMITTED A CRIME.

HIS PARDON TALKS ABOUT THOSE THAT LEAD REBELLION AGAINST THE LAWFULLY AUTHORIZED GOVERNMENT.

WHEN DONALD TRUMP ISSUED HIS PARDON, HE ISSUED IT AFTER HE SAID AFTER FOUR YEARS OF INJUSTICE, MAKING THE POINT THAT THE INSURRECTION WAS JUST.

WHEN YOU SET THAT KIND OF TONE , YOU ARE INVITING VIGILANTE IS HIM.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT DONALD TRUMP WANTS IT.

I AM TALKING ABOUT A SPIRIT .

THERE ARE MANY AMERICANS THAT MIGHT BE TROUBLED OR MIGHT SEE THE WAY IN WHICH THE PRESIDENT IS SPEAKING OF JANUARY SIXTH -- JANUARY 6 AS LICENSE THOSE THAT OPPOSE DONALD TRUMP.

>> ONE OF THE COMPARISONS IS ANDREW JACKSON WHO VERY MUCH WITH THE EXPANDING EXECUTIVE PALLET.

IN ONE OF HIS ACTIONS WHICH WAS REMOVAL OF NATIVE AMERICANS , THE INDIAN REMOVAL, TO ALMOST IN SOME WAYS ECHOES THE REMOVAL OF UNAUTHORIZED IMMIGRANTS THAT TRUMP IS TRYING TO DO .

WHEN THE SUPREME COURT SAID DON'T DO THAT TO JACKSON JUST LIKE THEY HAVE TO TRUMP, THE TALE IS THAT JACKSON INTIMATED CHIEF JUSTICE MARSHALL , LET US SEE HIM ENFORCE IT.

DO YOU WORRY THAT TRUMP MAY JUST DEFY THE SUPREME COURT?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT DONALD TRUMP WILL DO WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE.

I ANTICIPATE HE WILL LOSE A SERIES OF VERY IMPORTANT CASES.

I SUSPECT, I AM NOT A LAWYER AND I DON'T PLAY ONE ON TELEVISION THAT I DO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT FEDERAL ASSISTANCE TO UNIVERSITIES.

DONALD TRUMP'S DOJ WILL LOSE THE CASE.

I SUSPECT HE IS GOING TO LOSE THE CASE REGARDING BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP AND I ASSUME HE WILL LOSE SOME OF THE IMMIGRATION CASES.

HE HAS ALREADY STARTED TO.

I THINK THERE WILL BE AN ENORMOUS PRESSURE FROM THE MAGA WING TO DEFY THE COURTS.

I CANNOT PREDICT WHAT DONALD TRUMP WILL DO.

I HOPE THAT HE WILL CONCLUDE THAT HE CAN'T DEFY THE COURTS BUT I CAN'T PREDICT THAT BECAUSE THIS DONALD TRUMP IS AN UNLEASHED AND UNPLUGGED DONALD TRUMP FROM THE PERSON THAT WE SAW IN THE FIRST TERM.

THE FIRST TERM DONALD TRUMP, ACCEPTED HAVING PEOPLE AROUND HIM WHO COULD DISSUADE HIM FROM IMPULSES.

IN THE SECOND TERM, HE MADE CLEAR IN THE CAMPAIGN, THAT HE WANTED NO GUARD RAILS .

HE WANTED UNFILTERED TRUMP IS HIM .

WHETHER OR NOT THAT MEANS DEFYING THE COURT AND TALKING LIKE JACKSON IS SOMETHING TO BE SEEN.

>> WHAT HAPPENS IF HE DOES DEFY A COURT ORDER?

WHO COULD STEP IN?

WE KNOW THE FBI IS UNDER HIS CONTROL AND TO SOME EXTENT THE MILITARY AND THE U. S. ATTORNEY .

WHO COULD STEP IN?

>> UNDER MY UNDERSTANDING OF CONSTITUTIONAL TRADITION , THERE ISN'T ANYONE THAT CAN STEP IN.

WE HAVE THREE EQUAL BRANCHES.

THE SUPREME COURT HAS A MARSHALS SERVICE TO PROTECT THE LIVES AND THE MEMBERS OF THE SUPREME COURT.

THANK GOODNESS IN THIS DANGEROUS MOMENT.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE A SUPREME COURT THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT SECURITY.

THE SUPREME COURT DOESN'T HAVE AN ARMY .

ONE SIGN OF HOPE , IN OUR COUNTRY, WHEN YOU TAKE THE OATH OF OFFICE, YOU TAKE IT TO THE CONSTITUTION.

EVEN THOUGH DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T ACCEPT THE NORM THAT -- MIGHT NOT.

THAT THE PRESIDENT MUST DEFER TO THE SUPREME COURT ON MATTERS OF THE CONSTITUTION.

IT'S THAT THEY WOULD ACCEPT THE INTERPRETATION.

AND THAT WOULD HAVE TO INTERVENE.

THAT PUTS US IN A CATEGORY OF NATIONS.

KEEP IN MIND, LEADERS OF THE MILITARY DO NOT GIVE AN OATH TO THE PRESIDENT.

>> TO WORRY ABOUT THE WAY HE CHANGE THE JOINTS CHIEF OF STAFF AND THE WAY HE PUT AN UNCONVENTIONAL.

AS SECRETARY OF DEFENSE ALL LOYALIST TO HIM?

>> YES I WORRY.

I WORRY DEEPLY.

ONE OF THE LESSONS OF STUDYING THE PERIODS IN HISTORY WHEN WE HAVE HAD QUANTIFY AUTHORITARIANS AND POWER IS THE SYSTEM CAN CORRECT ITSELF.

USUALLY IT WRITES ITSELF BECAUSE MEMBERS OF I DON'T WANT TO USE THE TERM ELITE AMONG THOSE WITH POWER AND INFLUENCE, COME TO A BIPARTISAN UNDERSTANDING THAT THE AUTHORITARIAN ACTION THREATENS THE FABRIC OF WHO WE ARE AND OF OUR SOCIETY.

IN 1974, YOU HAVE ELECTED REPUBLICANS COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT NIXON HAD TO GO.

IN THE 50s YOU HAD REPUBLICANS THAT CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT JOE McCARTHY'S REIGN OF TERROR HAD TO AND.

THAT IS HOW THE SYSTEM WORKED.

THE OPPONENTS SUCCEED.

>> ARE YOU SEEING SIGNS THAT THAT COULD HAPPEN?

>> NOT YET.

>> I SAW GLIMMERS OF THIS WHEN A FEW SENATORS DECIDED TO SEND A NOTE OF DISAPPROVAL REGARDING TARIFFS ON CANADA.

THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY LACKED THE POWER TO CHANGE THE APPROACH TOWARD CANADA.

THEY DID SEND A SIGNAL.

WHAT I AM SEEING OUR THE BEGINNINGS OF A RETRENCHMENT.

IT INDICATES TO ME THAT THE PRESIDENT AND TEAM THINK THEY MIGHT BE LOSING POPULAR SUPPORT.

WE ARE SEEING THE PRESIDENT PULL BACK A BIT ON INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS.

IT IS NOT QUITE CLEAR WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE TARIFFS THAT HAVE BEEN UNIVERSALLY DENOUNCED FOR BEING STUPID .

BESIDES BEING HIGH, THEY DON'T HAVE ANY LOGIC ATTACHED.

THE PUBLIC ISN'T BUYING THEM.

THE PRESIDENT'S APPROVAL RATINGS ARE LOWER THAN THEY HAVE BEEN.

I BELIEVE LOWER THAN THE FIRST TERM.

THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF IS RETRENCHING A LITTLE.

I SEE A LITTLE BIT OF PUSHBACK ON THE HILL AND MORE PUSHBACK ON THE PART OF UNIVERSITIES AND SOME LAW FIRMS.

WE ARE BEGINNING TO SEE A REAWAKENING OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER.

LET'S BE CLEAR , FOR THE FIRST TWO THIRDS , IT APPEARED THE CONSTITUTIONAL SYSTEM WAS ASLEEP AND THE PRESIDENT WAS ACTING WITHOUT ANY PUSHBACK.

THE SITUATION HAS CHANGED AND I THINK WILL CONTINUE TO CHANGE.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE DRIVEN POPULARITY IS HE TAPPED INTO RESENTMENT AGAINST THE ELITE THAT YOU MENTIONED MIGHT BE THERE TO SAVE US.

I THINK AT ONE POINT HE SAID, I AM YOUR WARRIOR AND I AM YOUR JUSTICE.

FOR THOSE THAT HAVE BEEN WRONGED AND BETRAYED , I AM YOUR RETRIBUTION.

HE EVEN PUSHED THAT AGAINST PEOPLE .

DO YOU THINK THE SPIRIT OF RETRIBUTION IS SOMETHING HE ACTUALLY TAPPED INTO AND HOW DANGEROUS IS THAT?

>> THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT HE TAPPED INTO A POPULAR DESIRE FOR CHANGE AND IN SOME CASES FOR RETRIBUTION.

I THINK THE DISQUIET IN THE COUNTRY GOES BACK TO THE GREAT RECESSION AND THE RECOVERY THAT REGIONS OF THIS COUNTRY EXPERIENCE.

I DON'T DOUBT THAT THE PANDEMIC SHARPENED UNHAPPINESS IN DIVISION IN THE COUNTRY.

15 OR 20 YEARS FROM NOW, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE PANDEMIC STUDIES BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE FULLY ABSORBED OR PROCESSED THE EFFECT , POLITICAL, CULTURAL AND SOCIAL ON THE COUNTRY, LET ALONE THE WORLD.

THEIR LOVE WAS A LOT OF DISQUIET AND ANGER.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT NIXON'S CAMPAIGN, HE RAN ON RESENTMENTS TO THE ELITE AND SO DID ANDREW JACKSON.

>> HE RAN ON RESENTMENTS.

WHAT HE DIDN'T PROMISE WAS RETRIBUTION.

THAT IS THE KEY DIFFERENCE.

HE WANTED RETRIBUTION AND HE TRIED TO USE THE GOVERNMENT TO ACHIEVE IT.

GOOD GOVERNMENT REPUBLICANS PUSHED BACK.

THE ENEMIES LIST WAS INITIALLY HIS IDEA AND HE WAS NEVER ABLE TO IMPLEMENT.

MY POINT IS, AMERICAN LEADERS TAPPED INTO RESENTMENT, WHETHER IT WAS IN THE SOUTH FOR THE CIVIL RIGHTS REVOLUTION , YES.

WHAT DONALD TRUMP DID THAT IS SO DIFFERENT, HE MADE RETRIBUTION HIS GOVERNING PHILOSOPHY.

HE TOLD EVERYONE HE WOULD.

THE QUESTION I HAVE FOR FELLOW AMERICANS, IS THAT WHO WE ARE?

IS THAT HOW WE WANT TO BE GOVERNED?

I AM NOT CONVINCED THAT THERE IS A SUSTAINABLE BROAD GOVERNING COALITION BEHIND THE GOVERNMENT OF RETRIBUTION.

MAYBE I'M AN OPTIMIST.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR ASKING ME ON.

>> THANK YOU WALTER.