
'The Project' explores Project 2025's origins and goals
Clip: 5/1/2025 | 7m 5sVideo has Closed Captions
'The Project' explores Project 2025's origins and goals to reshape American culture
Many of the policies enacted by the Trump administration with lightning speed in these first 100 days were initially laid out two years ago in the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025. David Graham’s new book “The Project” details its origins and sweeping goals to reshape American culture. White House correspondent Laura Barrón-López sat down with Graham to discuss more.
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'The Project' explores Project 2025's origins and goals
Clip: 5/1/2025 | 7m 5sVideo has Closed Captions
Many of the policies enacted by the Trump administration with lightning speed in these first 100 days were initially laid out two years ago in the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025. David Graham’s new book “The Project” details its origins and sweeping goals to reshape American culture. White House correspondent Laura Barrón-López sat down with Graham to discuss more.
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Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorshipAMNA NAWAZ: Just over 100 days into the new administration, we're taking a broad look at what's been accomplished already and what else might be coming.
White House correspondent Laura Barron-Lopez is back now with more on the impact of Project 2025.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Many of the policies enacted by the Trump administration with lightning speed in these first 100 days were initially laid out two years ago in a document called Project 2025 by the conservative Heritage Foundation.
"Atlantic" staff writer David Graham's new book, "The Project," details the origins of Project 2025 and its sweeping goals to reshape American culture by expanding the president's control over policies on gender and immigration to the economy and the environment.
David, welcome to the "News Hour."
DAVID GRAHAM, Author, "The Project: How Project 2025 Is Reshaping America": Thank you for having me.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Many people by now have likely heard of Project 2025, but they may not know its origin story.
Can you tell us a bit about where it came from?
DAVID GRAHAM: Yes.
In early 2022, The Heritage Foundation's president charged -- Paul Dans, a former Trump administration staffer, was putting together a group of thinkers from across the Trump-friendly right to produce basically a platform for Trump or an agenda for Trump or the next Republican president, whoever that would be.
And it would include both policy ideas, ways to implement them, vetting of staffers who could serve in that administration and be trained ahead of time, and then a kind of playbook for the first 100 days so that the president could hit the ground running with a really effective rollout of policies.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: During the campaign, however, President Trump repeatedly said that he didn't know anything about Project 2025, didn't know the people behind it.
But how many of Project 2025's proposals have already been put into effect by the president?
DAVID GRAHAM: It's hard to quantify exactly because it's such a range of ideas.
But there have been dozens of executive orders that directly echo what's in Project 2025.
Many people involved in the project have entered the administration.
And in general, the whole approach of reducing the federal bureaucracy, seizing power for the executive branch, this comes straight from Project 2025.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Reshaping American culture is a, if not the central objective of Project 2025.
And you write that: "Project 2025 envisions in America where abortion is strictly illegal, sex is closely policed, public schools don't exist, and justice is harsh, all in accordance with fundamentalist Christian principles."
Who is prioritized in that vision?
DAVID GRAHAM: The priority really is on men as breadwinners.
They see women raising children as being the highest calling for them.
And they see the Christian heritage of the United States as being essential and something that needs to be brought to the fore.
So those are the people who will benefit and they want to see a family based around what they say are biblically based principles.
So when you see the Trump administration issuing an executive order that tries to define sex as male and female, or when they take on DEI programs, or when they issue an executive order banning trans women from sports, those are all ideas that come from here.
And they see these things as part of a total package.
This is the beginning.
It's maybe the part that's most politically salient, but they don't intend to stop there.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: One of the key authors of Project 2025, Russell Vought, is now the head of the Office of Management and Budget for President Trump.
Can you explain the beliefs that are guiding people like Russ Vought, as well as others that are now inside the administration?
DAVID GRAHAM: There's a really interesting interview that Vought did with Charlie Kirk a couple years ago.
And he said, the left describes me and people like me as a Christian nationalist.
They see that as pejorative.
I don't agree.
I think that's exactly what I am.
I am a Christian and I'm a nationalist.
They really buy into Trump.
They have gotten on board with him, even as they sometimes come from a more traditional right-wing background.
And they see this Christian society and the Christian founding of the country as they see it as important and slipping away from them in front of their eyes.
They want to stop that.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: David, you said that the conservative authors of Project 2025 are playing the long game.
How long?
DAVID GRAHAM: This is a question of decades.
For them, I think the Trump administration is a little bit of a vessel, but they want to change how structure -- the structure of society and they want to change the structure of the government.
They're looking back to roll back precedents from the Great Society in the 60s, from the New Deal in the 1930s, and even to the foundation of the civil service in the 1880s.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: Another pattern across Project 2025 that you write about and that we have seen play out a bit in the first few months of the president's time in office is an effort to expand his power, so much so that it is essentially limitless, from immigration or also taking some of Congress' power of the purse.
I mean, how are you seeing this already play out and what's to come?
DAVID GRAHAM: They see the executive branch as being rightly controlled entirely by the president.
And so that means they think he should be able to fire anybody who works in the executive branch.
Civil servants should be political appointees.
And if they're not doing what he wants, he should get rid of them.
They also think he should be able to seize control of independent agencies, the FTC, the FEC, FCC, bodies like this that are established by Congress to be appointed by the president, but then to operate independently.
And they also want to go through the traditional safeguards around things like the Justice Department, so they can operate as a tool of policy.
And we see all of those things.
We see the firings of civil servants and conversions under the so-called Schedule F. We see the Justice Department being used as a tool of retribution and the White House firing specific line prosecutors.
And then we see the firings of heads of independent agencies as well.
So I think the plan is proceeding just as laid out.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: How does Elon Musk factor into this?
And has he accelerated or disrupted any of Project 2025's plans?
DAVID GRAHAM: Musk is not contemplated in the plan.
And when it was written, he was not yet fully on the Trump train, but I think he's become a really useful tool for them.
So the sorts of attacks on the civil service that he's doing, the attempts to lay a lot of people off, are right in line with his ideas.
And there's been a bunch of reporting showing how Vought is working with Musk on this.
Now, there are potential points of conflict, but I think they see him as a good accelerant for getting their things done.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: What comes next?
What do you see the administration tackling in the months to come from Project 2025?
DAVID GRAHAM: They have been slowed down a little bit on executive branch changes, I think, particularly in the civil service, but we're going to see continued attempts to close departments like the Department of Education.
And we're also going to see the slow attack on these independent agencies.
There's also so many policy ideas in here that have to be done through the rulemaking process.
And that takes time and it takes getting their appointees in.
But as those people get into place, there's a whole line of agendas for every department that they're going to start working through.
LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ: David Graham of "The Atlantic," thank you for your time.
DAVID GRAHAM: Thank you.
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